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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 14-06-2023
This topic is truly significant. The examples are relevant. Your terminology, however, is a bit off the standard. The original name for such a pattern is a 'wolkenband', which is German for 'cloud band'. The current alternative descriptive is 'cosmic boundary', as that is what they generally represent: the boundary between the human and the divine, through which the deity manifests. Cosmic boundaries are also found in various cosmic illustrations, with or without deities.
The original(?) investigation of this topic occurred in conjunction with the comparison of the VMs cosmos to BNF Fr. 565, nearly ten years ago.
There are many ways to draw cosmic boundaries. The 'Oresme' example (565) is generally called a "scallop-shell" pattern. The VMs pattern is a nebuly line, based on the heraldic lines of division, and deriving its descriptive term from Latin 'nebula' meaning 'cloud'.
Here are 241 representations of wolkenbands.
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The VMs artist does things with these patterns that might bear further investigation, the circular designs that are fancy on the outside and 'plain' on the inside are historically uncommon. The use of a nebuly line as a cosmic boundary is uncommon, and the running of the "little mounds" up and down the sides of the undulations is also uncommon.
Examples of a nebuly line as a cosmic boundary do occur in the "Berry Apocalypse", which is interesting because the Duke of Berry was the original owner of BNF Fr. 565.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 15-06-2023
(14-06-2023, 07:41 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The original name for such a pattern is a 'wolkenband'
I doubt this is still relevant though. When I google "wolkenband" images I get a bunch of pictures of clouds and eastern rugs.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 15-06-2023
Koen is right. Calling these undulations a cloud band is confusing, since it is indeed a cosmic boundary and this is corroborated by many examples in medieval manuscripts.
In relation to the medieval universe let's see another iconographic element. Notice how the light rays end in dots in this image of the Annunciation from Grandes heures de Rohan
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In the Rosettes we see this cosmological image, the rays of light ending in dots
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And in this painting by Fra Angelico we see the dove of the Holy Spirit in the middle of the light
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It is what we see in this other Voynich image: the dove in the middle of the jet of light
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RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 15-06-2023
(15-06-2023, 07:24 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I doubt this is still relevant though. When I google "wolkenband" images I get a bunch of pictures of clouds and eastern rugs.
Hmm, when I google ( well, not google but startpage.com ) "wolkenband manuscript" I get something like this (1st hit):
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Buch der Könige [= Der Künige Buch] ; Schwabenspiegel, Haguenau, [1425> <1450], folio 72r
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 15-06-2023
Googling "wolkenband manuscript" gives first the site you link, then a Voynich blog, then a weather forecast in German, then Nick Pelling's site, then a wiki about Voynich jargon...
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 15-06-2023
Well, you're right about that. 'Wolkenband' never has been a good search term to find examples of this artistic technique and tradition. However, it was a more significant term in the first <VMs> discussions of this topic initiated by D. Hoffmann. It is a term that may also prove useful in the investigation of early modern art history. But what was this technique called by the artists who drew it and people who saw it before those German art historians?
While interesting in many ways...
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The detail of note here is in the heraldic insignia. Per bend nebuly argent et gules. There is a clear ideological connection between "Wolken" and 'nebuly' on display well before the VMs dates.
As investigators, we need to see things from the perspective of 1400-1450, or thereabouts. From that perspective, the "Wolken-nebuly" association is a given that "everybody" knows. And from the perspective of VMs 'research', it is a fairly recent discovery / recovery. The further extension of the VMs use of nebuly lines in Q13, particularly the Agnus Dei, provide the examples. Some things will appear much more obvious from the "medieval" perspective, if we know that the nebuly line can be interpreted as a cosmic boundary, then the 'critter' must be worthy representative, and the Agnus Dei is the logical choice from the medieval perspective.
Likewise with the investigation of Melusine. Recovery of a relevant perspective reveals the historical Valois connections. Both the VMs cosmos and Melusine have these 'ties' to the Duke of Berry (d. 1416, Paris). They reveal the VMs artist's knowledge in detail of an era that is now long passed.
Like the recent misinterpretation of "flores" as real flowers, I'll bet the trees (arbores) aren't really trees, either. It makes you wonder about the extent of mercury toxicity.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 15-06-2023
OK, I didn't click through. But I don't think the description "wolkenband" is wrong for the known pattern. After all, this term is a tag in the first hit.
edit: posted too late
RE: No text, but a visual code - R. Sale - 15-06-2023
In medieval art, a 'Wolkenband' is more of a thing, not a pattern. The patterns seem to vary from artist to artist.
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As a thing, a Wolkenband can be like a divine attribute. It is an artistic technique that marks the boundary between the celestial and the earthly. It has no consistent pattern or color, and while often based on "cloudy" designs, it can also be wavy, fiery, solar or angelic in construction and appearance. Cosmic boundary is more inclusive for all the variations.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Aga Tentakulus - 15-06-2023
I think "band of clouds" is quite an apt description.
How do children draw clouds? It's not just an oval, it has waves.
Have you ever seen a sea of clouds? It doesn't have waves.
Something celestial has to be different than just a cloud.
The word "band" also means "bond", (connection). The band in the star sign of Pisces.
Connection between the earthly and the heavenly.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 16-06-2023
It is a curious coincidence that also in the Beinecke library is the Rothschild Canticles codex, where we also see the spiral in a sphere as in the Voynich.
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In this image we see the spiral inside the sphere of the sun. There is no doubt that what the artist is trying to represent is the movement of the sun. In the case of the Voynich, what is represented is the movement of the celestial spheres in general.