+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-03-2023
Alain Touwaide did not say that the VM was a fake but that he did not rule it out. I do not have this information first hand. I have taken it from the thread in this forum about the conference he gave at Villa Mondragone in 2019.
I insist that the VM is not just a herbal book but something else that leads one to think that it is an astrological book.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-04-2023
The Voynich problem is more than anything else a problem of understanding its time. To delve into the mentality of that time. A mentality in which astrology was studied in universities.
What does the zodiac man mean, a contemporary image of the Voynich that we can see in hundreds of manuscripts? It simply reflects the power of the stars and that is what we see in the Voynich: the power of the stars.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-04-2023
I have quite a bit of respect for Voynich researchers in the 20th century. Erwin Panofsky or Mary D'Imperio contributed valuable ideas that I think have not been fully appreciated.
I especially appreciate the conclusion reached by the great cryptanalyst William F. Friedman. His idea that the script could be a synthetic or universal language fascinates me.
I have ever said it. I think the Voynich script is an attempt to create a universal language like in mathematics. Unlike Friedman, I think that this attempt is not phonetic but visual, iconic, with symbols that mean by themselves.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 23-04-2023
I don't think much attention is paid to the conclusion reached by Friedman. He is possibly the greatest cryptography expert to have examined the Voynich for years.
In this forum there are many fans of cryptography but they do not seem to take into account that a great specialist like Friedman did not believe that the script was a cipher in the strict sense.
RE: No text, but a visual code - bi3mw - 23-04-2023
I am not aware that Friedman explicitly ruled out a cipher. He merely made a guess as to what the VMS might be instead:
"The Voynich Manuscript was an early attempt to construct an artificial or universal language of the A-Priori type.-Friedman."
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 24-04-2023
No, he didn't make a guess, he made a clear statement. And that statement means precisely that the Voynich script is not a cipher in the strict sense
RE: No text, but a visual code - ReneZ - 24-04-2023
Friedman said a bit more, partly in confidence to Tiltman. His message is clear enough. If he thinks that it looks like a form of artificial or constructed language, then he clearly thinks that it is not a cipher.
The problem with discussions about this topic is that the term 'cipher' is interpreted by different people in different ways. As a result, people who have similar ideas may be disagreeing in such discussions.
For the topic of this particular thread it plays no role, because either way Friedman still believed (or at least hoped) that the Voynich MS text represents some form of meaningful writing. He was just proposing a very different relationship between the 'cipher' text and the plain text.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 24-04-2023
Of course Friedman's idea has to do with this thread. I also believe that the script has meaning, a meaning that belongs to the time the book was written and that requires tuning into that mentality.
We don't know much about Friedman's idea and can't speculate. It is supposed that he was inspired by John Wilkins, author of the first constructed or artificial universal language. In such a case, Friedman would think, among other things, of ideograms.
I think similarly because for me the Voynich script is just a set of symbols-ideas referring to the world of astronomy-astrology.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 28-04-2023
It is shocking that in this forum that there are almost 3,000 threads there is not one dedicated to the conclusion reached by Friedman. He is one of the best cryptographers of the 20th century and one of the researchers who has spent the longest time deciphering the Voynich.
Isn't it strange that in a forum that seeks the truth about this rare medieval codex there is no discussion about this expert's conclusion?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Koen G - 28-04-2023
In my opinion, the most important thing to keep in mind around Voynich research communication is this: if you put forward a conclusion to your research and people don't respond well to it, there are two possible explanations: either you didn't explain it well enough, or you are wrong.