scripts with character variants and ambiguities - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html) +--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html) +--- Thread: scripts with character variants and ambiguities (/thread-2293.html) |
scripts with character variants and ambiguities - MarcoP - 13-02-2018 I guess that one of the problems with statistical analyses of the VMS is that, when comparing with other sources, one typically only has modern texts available. My impression is that some of the strange features of Voynichese might be caused by the script, rather than by the language. For instance, there are medieval European scripts in which the same character is written differently on the basis of the nearby characters. I expect this could result in lower entropy (but it's clear to me that this phenomenon should be very extensive to result in second-order entropy comparable with the VMS). This is an example of a script in which 'r' has three different shapes: * similar to uppercase R (but smaller) at the beginning of words [red] * similar to '2' or 'z' when midword and immediately following a "round" character ('o', 'p', 'd') [green] * 'r' in other cases [blue] Obviously, to an hypothetical transcriber having no knowledge of Latin languages and alphabet, these three would look like different characters and each would be transcribed as such. He would have to deal with a character that only occurs at the beginning of words and another one that only occurs in the presence of a restricted left context. UPenn You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - Virgil - [Le livre des Eneydes] - France, late XV Century Other interesting features in this manuscript are that 'v' only occurs word-initial (in all other cases, the same character as 'u' is used) and 's' has two different shapes (this is actually quite frequent), one only occurs at the end of words, the other elsewhere. The example of 'v' is a simple case of ambiguity: a single symbol sometimes used for unrelated sounds. This same manuscript typically omits the dot upon 'i', with the result that 'm' and 'ni'/'in' are often indistinguishable. Of course, something similar might be happening with VMS EVA:i and EVA:e sequences (see also this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., by Stephen Bax). RE: scripts with character variants and ambiguities - -JKP- - 14-02-2018 There are quite a few initial/medial/final shapes in languages that use Latin alphabet and abbreviations and many of the abbreviations resemble letters. A few examples of initial/medial/final-character ambiguity:
A few examples of common scribal abbreviations that resemble letters:
----- In terms of statistics (which is an interesting topic, misinterpretation of the shapes as different letters probably would create a few positional constraints (like a shape that only occurs in the initial or final position) but the medial forms would probably still move around more than they do in the VMS and they would probably still not be "tied" to companion glyphs as much as they are in the VMS, so sample text would have to be analyzed to determine to what extent positional patterns would be similar to VMS text. As for the perceived character set, if a scribe were from a different culture and didn't recognize the difference between initial/medial/final forms, their perception of the size of the basic alphabet might increase, rather than decrease (they might perceive more than 30 shapes as basic characters and if they were from an African or Asian culture, this would not seem unusual), especially if some of the abbreviations that resemble letters were also misperceived as letters). RE: scripts with character variants and ambiguities - Paris - 14-02-2018 Quant tout fut prest sur lerbe se poserent Ou leurs corps laz et tristes reposerent De divers vivres et de doulce liqueur Comancerent a reprandre vigueur Quant ilz eurent leur aspre fain chassee P?? viande quil avoient pourchassee Et que de table furent trestous levez Eulx qui estoient lassez et agravez Comancerent lors par parolle maincte De leurs consors faire regret et plaincte Et eulx piteux entre espoir et grand doubte RE: scripts with character variants and ambiguities - nablator - 14-02-2018 (14-02-2018, 10:45 AM)Paris Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.P?? viande quil avoient pourchasseePar. Very readable and understandable even without training except for the iv/ui and ni/in/m ambiguities. A full transcript and critical study (PDF, French) : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. A century older script, in Nicole Oresme's Le livre du ciel et du monde (BNF Fr. 565) is more challenging to read. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The first paragraph of the famous illustrated page: Quote:Au nom de dieu ci commence le livre d'aristote appelle du ciel et du monde lequel du commandement de tres souverain et t[re]s excellent prince Charle quint de cest nom, par la grace de dieu Roy de france, desirant & amant toutes noblez sciences, je nichole oresme, doyen de l'eglise de rouen, propose translater et exposer en francois. - Some 'r's are difficult to make out, e.g. in Roy (with s-like prefix because it's a capital R I suppose) and france (ligature looks like 'fi'), - 'a' sometimes looks like 'ri', e.g. souverrain looks like souuerrim, - Latin abbreviations are used, such as 'prop' written 'pp' with a tail, 'par' written 'p' with a short horizontal bar underneath, etc. On the same page, a curiously open 'o' similar to Voynichese V101-A that can sometimes be confused with 'a': "selon soy" |