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+--- Thread: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? (/thread-2209.html)
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - MarcoP - 07-12-2017
(07-12-2017, 09:47 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So Cancer as two crayfish is unique, right?
Taurus with basket too?
Thank you for starting this interesting discussion, Koen!
A while ago, with the help of Darren Worley and others, I tried something similar on the site of Stephen Bax . What I did there was trying to define simple boolean features and the Basket of Taurus was the only totally unparalleled feature I found. More recently, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has pointed out the existence of parallels in Christian art (since the motif is so rare, I think they are worth mentioning even if they don't belong to zodiacal images).
Following the "boolean" approach suggested by Johannes Klein on Stephen’s site, I defined two distinct features for cancer:
Quote: Cancer – Double: Two crustaceans appear in the image.
Cancer – Lobster: The crustacean looks like a lobster, not like a crab.
The first of the two is very rare.
The second feature is rare in Italy (in particular in Southern Italy) and possibly unknown in the Islamic culture, while it is common North of the Alps.
If you take enough features together, any manuscript illustration is unique. E.g. Morgan M.103: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. walking on two blueish hills, touching the tip of its tail with its nose. Unique?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with long sleeves, no Spica, crisscross belt. Unique?
Two sets of two crayfish each appear in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Western France, 1455-60).
(07-12-2017, 09:47 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Pisces each connected to a star with a line?
On that same post on Stephen’s site, I wrote:
Quote:A recurring element that is typical of the Voynich zodiac and for which it was not possible to find a consistent parallel is the presence of large stars linked by curved lines (“tails” in Stolfi and Zandbergen’s terminology) to the main subject of the medallion. Such stars appear in Pisces, Virgo and Scorpio.
I consider these “tailed stars” (or “tethered stars”) a unique feature in zodiac cycles. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has pointed out parallels in non-zodiacal medieval astrological images (in particular from the “Breviari d’Amor” by Matfre Ermengaud).
The fact that “tailed stars” appear several times in the Voynich zodiac medallions, hundreds of times in the zodiac nymphs, a few times in Quire 13 (e.g. the “cannon” on f82r, the nymphs on the left of f83r) and tens of times (as paragraph markers?) in Quire 20 (e.g. f105r) makes them one of the most typical traits in the manuscript as a whole.
BTW, the rope that (according to classical sources) should connect the two fish in Pisces appears in the double-Cancer. This is a unique feature of the Voynich Cancer, as far as I know.
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - Koen G - 07-12-2017
Thanks, Marco!
You point out two other difficulties:
- what to do with features which are only or predominantly found in non-Zodiac imagery? Perhaps add a "notes" section for each figure?
And more complicated:
- How many aspects should be treated together?
This goes both ways. There's what you say, if you select a large enough number of traits and look for an exact match, it will soon turn out that each image ever drawn is unique. This cannot be the intention.
But on the other hand, it feels like looking for bulls which have both long and lyre-shaped horns yields more satisfying results than just looking for these traits in isolation. I guess we'll look at this on a case by case basis.
For example, I think listing "double crayfish" as a unique [edit: I must say "rare" now] feature is useful. Like this, when someone runs across a double crayfish they will know right away it's relevant.
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - -JKP- - 07-12-2017
I hadn't seen that one, Marco (BNF NAL 3191).
It looks like they reflect the tradition where mirror images are included for constellations (as is found in the more astronomical texts), but in such amazing elaborate backgrounds, and with extras, if there was space.
Three Aquarius, six Pisces, eight Aries, two Taurus, four crayfish (two pairs of mirror images), three lions, two Virgos, two Libras, three scorpions, two centaurs, two Capricorns.
I've never seen one like it, where they include as many zodiac symbols as they can fit within the landscape.
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - Koen G - 07-12-2017
I edited Taurus and Cancer to reflect some of our discussion, remarks are welcome:
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RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - -JKP- - 07-12-2017
(07-12-2017, 01:53 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I edited Taurus and Cancer to reflect some of our discussion, remarks are welcome:
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Koen, take a look at the BNF link. The format of these images is completely different from any other. They are landscapes that go from the top to the bottom of the page and include as many zodiac-symbols as will fit comfortably while still leaving room for the floral elements to look attractive.
Each page has at least one mirror image duplicate, and then extras as the landscape will allow (sometimes as many as 6 to 8). So... it's important to somehow reflect on the other thread that this is not just a case of a doubled crayfish. It's four of them, in a zodiac series where all of them are multiplied as much as space will allow. I don't know how that can be worded but it needs to say it in a way so the reader understands that the BNF series is replicated throughout, whereas the VMS is not (as René has pointed out, VMS Aries and Taurus are split pages, with the nymph imagery split in half 15 + 15 so I don't think we can consider these as duplicates in the same way as the crayfish/lobsters).
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - -JKP- - 07-12-2017
It took me years to collect and generate this data, but here it is. Out of 500+ zodiac sequences...
Pisces
- a string that runs outside rather than between the fish is very rare. I haven't found one yet.
Aries
- I only found a minority of Aries that were walking to the left with the leg farthest from the viewer raised in a v-shape. They are usually standing, walking, but leg not raised, running, or going toward the right, or have the close-to-the-viewer leg raised. If you ignore whether they are facing right or left, the number goes up to about 22%.
Taurus
- A minority of Taurus have long horns (moderately long to very long), about 22%.
- About 12% have horns that are both long and mostly lyre-shaped (uncommon).
- Red Taurus is not common, about 12% (most are brownish).
- Bright red Taurus is found in Hebrew, Arabic, Swiss, and German manuscripts (also one that is Austrian, but it's not as bright). The reddest one is from Weingarten, Germany, a horse-like Taurus. A little less than 2% could be considered bright red for the time (remember that these are natural pigments).
Gemini
- 20% have male/female Gemini (most are male/male) - less common
- a minority of these are clothed (most are nude, or nude with capes on their shoulders, but still clearly nude) - 4% (somewhat rare)
- I have only found 5 Geminis where the male/female are wearing clothing that closely approximates the dress in the VMS (less than 1% - rare)
Cancer
- About 34% use a lobster or crayfish rather than the crab.
- About 10% of the crayfish Cancers have the "cee" shapes on the carapace (uncommon).
- Only the VMS crayfish has the legs on the tail rather than on the upper body. Very rare.
Leo
- Leo without a mane is rare. There are some leopards in Arabic manuscripts (which don't have manes), but the spots are usually fairly distinct, and one that appears to be a maneless lion. Whether the VMS Leo has spots is less clear and it has been painted with delicate dabs of blue rather than the colors of a leopard. Note that the pose very closely mimics the very dark blue maneless lion with "spots" (lines of fur) in Codex Schürstab GKS 34668 Bestiary. I was not the first one who found this and I can't remember who did, but it's very similar except for the shape of the face. The VMS is more animal-like and has a tongue.
- 33 of the lions have tongues sticking out, about 6.5% (uncommon)
- approx. 78 have their legs curling around through their legs, about 15% (less common)
- lions without claws are uncommon.
Virgo
- The traditional Virgo is male. A few are androgynous. But the majority are female (about 80%), so the gender is not unusual.
- Sitting Virgos are not as common, however, only about 8% overall. Arabic and Indic zodiacs often have sitting Virgos.
- Sitting Virgos with wide sleeves are rare, less than 2%.
- Sitting Virgos with hats are just as rare, about 1% (one was a garland).
Libra
- 120 have no hand or figure holding the scales - 24%, in the minority but not especially unusual
- 42 have no hand or figure and are within circles rather than other shapes About 8%, fairly unusual
Scorpio
- there are 55 Scorpios that are more-or-less lizard-like, but a few of these are hard to distinguish from dragons (which are different from the lizard Scorpios overall) and a small number have 6 legs which means they might be tarasks and not zodiac-style lizards. Excluding those with wings and extra legs, and those that look like frogs or turtles, there are about 20 that are more reptilian and similar to the VMS. This is about 4% (fairly rare).
Sagittarius
- only about 10% of Sagittarius images have two legs (uncommon)
- less than 2% have crossbows (rare)
I have a lot more data, but I need sleep. I have to go.
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - Koen G - 07-12-2017
JKP: very good remark about the BNF MS. I will move this to the "notes" section instead.
And thanks for the overview, that's amazing. Some questions:
* Virgo: is she sitting? I always pictured her dress as wide and perhaps trailing, but I hadn't considered that she might be seated.
Also, to me (s)he looks rather androgynous from the neck up, though the dress would seem to indicate a female. Maybe this deserves a separate thread about this figure.
* Sagittarius: I'd also classify human crossbowman as rare. Have examples been found outside of the "Hausebuch" tradition Nick wrote about a while ago?
* Leo: do you know how many have a pointy tongue?
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - -JKP- - 07-12-2017
Based on looking at a lot of these, I *think* she's sitting (maybe 85% sure, but certainly not 100%).
She looks androgynous to me too. This was not unusual for Virgo. I really don't know if she's meant to be male, female or both.
I need to sleep, but I'll check the tongues for you before I go, back in a few...
Okay... the tongues are almost always squared-off or bulbous (usually bulbous).
- There is a demon-like Leo in MS Rawl. D. 939 with a pointy tongue. Unlike the VMS, it has claws.
- The end is a bit faded, but the tongue on AN IV 18 Claudii Caesaris (Switzerland) appears to be sharp. It also has claws and a long mane.
- The tongue on Walters W.37 Hours (Flanders?) is small and hard to see but looks like it's sharp. It's worth a look-see because it has no claws, a tail that curls through the legs, and is painted blue (not the most common color for Leo). It also has crayfish Cancer and no-hand Libra.
- The tongue is sharp on Walters W.734, the crazy Hyginus with the horselike Aries and Taurus. Leo is also rather horselike, but has long claws.
- The Egyptian coffin of Soter might be a sharp tongue, but maybe it's blunt.
- ÖSB Cod. 387 is a brush-stroke tongue, so it's sharp.
- Hausbuch MD2 (zodiac wheel) is barely more than a line, so it's sharp but perhaps not intentionally so, the space is limited.
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - -JKP- - 08-12-2017
Libra
The connection of the chains to the crossbar on VMS Libra is very rare.
Most drawings don't give much detail about how the chains or cords connect. I have searched and searched for another that shows an extension on the ends of the crossbar like the VMS drawing. It's an important detail not only because it takes extra effort to draw it this way, but because it shows the mechanical or detail leaning of the illustrator. I have only found a couple that come close in other zodiac-symbol drawings (there might be more out there, but they are eluding me, perhaps one can be found in scales that are not part of a zodiac sequence). Once in a while you can find one with metal caps on the ends, but not the narrow extension specific to the VMS.
Another thing that's unusual is the way the support around the center spike has been spread open. I'm guessing this is to make it easier to see the spike. This is also unusual. It gives the manuscript a pedagogic feel.
Sagittarius
The laces on the boots are also rare, partly because most Sagittarius symbols don't have legs, and partly because most illustrators don't bother with laces when they do add legs. Most of the time the legs are shown bare or with leggings. Only a few have boots. Even in non-zodiac drawings, most are drawn without laces.
The tail on the bowman's hat is longer than most and a slightly different style. Most are folds of fabric or animal tails. I think this one is a rounded fabric tail. You don't see too many of them in medieval illustrations, I had to really look to find them, but they do exist. The Netherlands hunting tapestries in the Victoria & Albert Museum have a couple of examples. It's almost like the tail on the hat doubles as a pouch for carrying things.
You can see both kinds, the fabric-fold tails and the long "pouch" style with rounded bottom (like the VMS hat) in this example:
And this one was posted on one of my zodiac-symbol blogs, with the one on the left being similar to the VMS hat:
![[Image: HatsLongRoundTail.png]](http://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/HatsLongRoundTail.png)
RE: What is unique or rare about the VM Zodiac signs? - Koen G - 08-12-2017
Right, so I'll add for Libra unique (so far): "method of connecting chains to crossbar"
And perhaps a note saying that the perspective on the supports around the central spike is unusual?
Sagittarius: are his boots really laced, though? I can only see one line where the vertical part bends into the horizontal part.
I'll add with "rare" that the tail on his hat is exceptionally long and voluminous.
I would also add with "unique" that the trigger bar is attached on the wrong side of the nut, it should be between the user and the nut, not between the tip and the nut.
Also, would his facial hair style be a unique feature? I don't recall any Sagittarii with only a goatee, though it's not something I've always paid attention to.
And also, would a Leo with blue spots be considered rare or unique? For the sign, so excluding imagery from other sources.