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Three-section orbs - Printable Version

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RE: Three-section orbs - R. Sale - 05-01-2018

Apparently by Evrard d'Epinques (1479-1480)

It appears that the standard T-O illustration is frequently a geographic map.


[Image: abf5a784421f4d34a3f152b16f818583.jpg]ographic

RE: Three-section orbs - VViews - 07-03-2018

I'd like to add that the illustration JKP presented on the previous page,( BNF Fr 565) is from an exemplar of Oresme's De Spera.
In the same vein:
BNF Anc 8014(2), 15thC France, Christine de Pisan.
The volume contains various treaties on the virtues, astrology and on astronomy, including a section reprising Nicolas Oresme's Treaty of the Sphere, where we find the following:
Detail from f75:


[Image: pisan.png]

There does seem to be a rather consistent link between the inverted T-O and Oresme's treaty. The shape does not however always connote the earth, but rather celestial phenomena.

RE: Three-section orbs - R. Sale - 08-03-2018

While the preference is for three-section orbs, there is some question as to what those three sections are. An alternative interpretation of the orb illustrated in Oresme's cosmos (BNF Fr. 565) does not appear to match the three elements interpretation as well as it should. The bottom portion is clearly water, but the upper part may well be a division between inhabited lands and unexplored lands.

What is clear is that there is water at the bottom of Oresme (565).  And that is also true of the illustration in Oresme's BNF Fr. 1082 (below).
This appears to be land on top, water on the bottom. However the land in 1082 is not differentiated like the land in 565.


[Image: regiacharlesv_fr.1082.jpg]



Also referenced in the first posting is Harley 334 f.29, with water at the bottom.
This ms is attributed to Gautier de Metz, second quarter of 15th century in Paris.
Paris is also a hot spot for scallop-shell patterned cloud bands.

And there is a illustration from the same source f. 34v with water at the bottom.

[Image: E102779a.jpg]


Whatever the information supplied by the labels and text of the VMs cosmos of f68v, the structure of the cosmic diagram as a whole is still a close match to Oresme (565).

RE: Three-section orbs - R. Sale - 08-03-2018

And now for something completely different.
Reference:  gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8451099w

Needs more information!


[Image: c10c9fde733841ba12d099505326a747.jpg]

RE: Three-section orbs - nablator - 09-03-2018

(08-03-2018, 11:59 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And now for something completely different.

Nice!

BNF Fr. 568, Livre du Trésor, 13th century. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

God is holding the world-orb. Obviously, Air is above, with Sun and Moon. Earth and Water below, with assorted animals.

It's an encyclopedia authored by Brunetto Latini, who is Italian, while he was staying in France. More information and transcript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The red text : "Here begins the first book of the treasure that speaks of the birth of all things, that master Brunetto Latini made - Prologue".

RE: Three-section orbs - -JKP- - 09-03-2018

R. Sales... looks like BNF Fr. 568 was inspired by Genesis.

On the left:

Genesis 1:25 - "And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind."

On the right:

Genesis 1:22 - "God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.""

Genesis 1:26 - "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

RE: Three-section orbs - R. Sale - 11-03-2018

Certainly seems that there were a fair number of possible variations that used a three-section format to represent the earth.

Given all the different possibilities, it makes the comparative similarities in structure between the Oresme cosmos (BNF Fr. 565) and the VMs cosmos (f68v) that much more significant - even if the VMs representation appears to be visually altered for the purpose of disguise.

RE: Three-section orbs - MarcoP - 11-03-2018

PS: the page linked below gives the following description (emphasis mine):
Quote:In 1224 the religious house of San Quirico near Antrodoco within the diocese of Rieti was engaged with the bishop of Penne in a struggle about jurisdiction over a group of churches locally within the diocese of Penne.[15] Among these was the twelfth-century collegiate church of Santa Maria di Ronzano near Castel Castagna, which with many of its twelfth-century frescoes still survives. One of these frescoes, from the Old Testament cycle, the creation of the world (plate 8), offers a last opportunity for warning the reader about the complexity of memory and time, the inventiveness to which both of these concepts, both continually important to this book, are susceptible. The God who creates the world of the fresco is Christ, the Redeemer, with the wounds from the nails clearly apparent in His hands and feet. The world He creates is a disc within a circling firmament decorated with heavenly bodies. The disc itself is cut as if by the letter X into four parts, of which the top three represent aspects of earthly nature. In the fourth a man brandishing an axe, as if to clear for planting, stands behind a pair of oxen pulling a plow: that is, a representation of the labor to which humankind was driven after the Fall.
So the image is not relevant for the topic.

This fresco is in  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Castel Castagna, Central Italy.

I have been unable to find good quality photographs.
It clearly represents the creation of the world, as in the above mentioned Brunetto Latin ms You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The creator, as in the BNF ms, is represented by Christ Pantocrator.

I found the fresco in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., which reproduces the bw picture from a 1969 book: Guglielmo Matthiae, "Pittura medioevale abruzzese".

Google provided a few colour photographs, but all at low resolution.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. provides some context.

RE: Three-section orbs - Searcher - 11-03-2018

R. Sale wrote:

Quote:Certainly seems that there were a fair number of possible variations that used a three-section format to represent the earth.
I'd say that it is not the Earth itself. The three-section orb often represented not the Earth, but the World. As MarcoP pointed: "It clearly represents the creation of the world, as in the above mentioned Brunetto Latin ms You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The creator, as in the BNF ms, is represented by Christ Pantocrator." And Nablator wrote: "BNF Fr. 568, Livre du Trésor, 13th century. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. God is holding the world-orb. Obviously, Air is above, with Sun and Moon. Earth and Water below, with assorted animals." In d'Oresme'sTraité de la sphère ; Aristote, Du ciel et du monde (including You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), Gautier de Metz's Image du Monde (Harley 334) one can see it even from the titles. Le Miroir historial, f16v (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) also depicts the Creation of the World with the same inverted T-O map, but without any pictures in it.
The fragment of the f16v(BNF 308):
[Image: native.jpg]
Thus, a three-section orb is the "triplex mundus" (the threefold World). I think the matter is that some saw this threefold world as the world of living creatures, i. e., the Earth with divisions: classical - sky, earth, water; by land masses - Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.; another - in philosophical sense: body, soul, sirit; or in theosophical - God, universe, human; Platonic - phisical, metaphisical and logical elements of the world; Hermetic (similarly to Platonic) - elementary, celestial and intellectual components; Kircher's division - sublunar, celestial and supecelestial worlds, and so on.
As I understand, it depends on that what a person knows and how interprets the world. It seems that, in general, the main aim is showing the division by three to reflect the principle of triplicity of the World,  it doesn't matter whether a "T-O" is inverted or not, if it represents the world, only pictures in it can show how /from which angle a person (an artist) considers the world. I gave a link You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to the good collection of Christian icons "Salvator mundi", on their examples we can see that different artists depicted the orb of the world differently (like the Earth, the Solar system, a transparent sphere, etc.), but we know that it is the World (Salvator Mundi - the Savior of the World), after all.


RE: Three-section orbs - R. Sale - 14-03-2018

Rather than trying to tie all of these examples together too tightly, it seems to me there are some significant differences. The first of these is whether the illustration is religious or not.  The second difference is whether the three part division is a standard T-O or an inverted T-O. The religious illustrations can be oriented in regular or inverted conformation and are frequently featureless, but not all.

Religious images generally fit the 'Salvator mundi' format; they show the creation of the world. Non-religious images, illustrations of the cosmos, such as Oresme's depiction, (BNF Fr. 565), show the standard, medieval, earth-centered representation. Non-religious images in the regular T-O orientation are generally geographic maps. Non religious images in an inverted T-O format are a little harder to pin down, because they are relatively few in number and not necessarily consistent among themselves in what they contain, although they are generally consistent in using pictorial representations. The VMs stands out among inverted T-O representations in that it makes use of labels and written text instead.

The point in comparing Oresme (565) with VMs You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is to note the similarities and the differences. The first point to note is that both images are non-religious. The second point is that both use the inverted T-O format. The third point of comparison is that Oresme depicts the three parts pictorially, while the VMs uses labels, which are in themselves ambiguous because the words cannot be read. While it does seem fairly standard that the lower half is often shown as water, the word used is not entirely clear and variously transcribed (voynich.nu).

Further comparison of other parts of these two cosmic representations shows a similarity of structure that exists despite a clear (and intentional) differences of appearance.

The lesson of this comparison, IMO, is to show that structure is the more significant factor in identification and visual appearance is clearly secondary. It is necessary to understand the internal workings of the illustration, rather than focus exclusively on the similarities of the visual aspects.