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+--- Thread: Voynich’s Viennese Agency (/thread-2167.html)
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
Yes that's true, but if a single person with a double surname, then the text would have said "has", not "have", unless it's been about, say, two brothers.
I just discovered that the resource I referenced provides full-text search. Although not a perfect tool in combination with optical recognition, this can bring some results.
There are quite a number of references to Lemberg in the period 20 through 29th October 1912 in Austrian papers, so I was reluctant to follow them all.
"Shapinski" is not mentioned. There is "Stapinski" featured several times in the period afore mentioned:
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Of particular interest may be the local Lvov paper of 21th October (the first reference in the list). It's in Polish, technically Polish is more or less close to Russian so maybe I could understand what's it about, but I leave that to Polish-speaking readers.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
Probably this person: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
Actually the letter after "a" looks like "t" (compare with "t" in "did not see you"), and the whole phrase then is "have been speaking at Lemberg".
The somewhat strange choice of the preposition may be explained that the reference is not to Lemberg (Lvov) as town, but to Lemberg as adjective - refererring to the congress which took place in Lvov those days (and which is described in the local newspaper.
It's still strange nonetheless that there is no punctuation mark before "Stapinski".
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Searcher - 04-11-2017
If it is Stapinski, Sliwinski can be You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
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RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
Sliwinski is mentioned in papers around the time, but I can't find where they would be mentioned together with Stapinski.
Also, the words in the documents do not match "Sliwinski" nor "Stapinski" perfectly. The second letter in "S*apinski" does not look like his "t" at all.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - ReneZ - 04-11-2017
(04-11-2017, 02:43 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's the "Die Neue Zeitung" archive for 1912, those who read German could have a glance at October 29th or a couple of days before that.
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The above link, and the fact that it can be used to do text searches, as Anton mentioned after, is very useful.
Here's a newspaper report from the same day as the letter, referring to discussions in Lemberg which involved a certain Sliwinski (I did not reproduce the diacritics correctly):
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(hope that works).
The discussion was about a "Polenklub", something that has potential to be close to Voynich's heart.
Looking forward to further contributions from all.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
As I understand, Polenklub was a political party represented in Reichsrat.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Searcher - 04-11-2017
Anton:
Quote:Sliwinski is mentioned in papers around the time, but I can't find where they would be mentioned together with Stapinski.From the link I gave above:
Związek Chłopski został odtworzony You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. jako organizacja prosanacyjna. Funkcjonował w tej formule do czasu utworzenia You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. „grupy chłopskiej” wewnątrz You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., którego stał się częścią i zakończył swoją działalność. W tym czasie głównymi działaczami ZCh byli: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (prezes), Józef Kaźmierczak, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Both are mentioned as activists of the same organisation Związek Chłopski (ZCh). It was later, but it doesn't mean that they hadn't political and ideological connections earlier.
Of course, it is in the case, if the second surname is Stapinski. I'm not sure about this, too.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - voynichbombe - 04-11-2017
This thread got kind of hi-jacked
But nevertheless, very interesting!
About the signature, it is too bad I can only read "G. Mülbaier" (where that curious v-shaped i-dot goes a bit astray), because, IF it would read "Mühlbauer", it would lead us to "Mühlbauer & Behrle", "German Bookshop" in Chicago, specializing in books of interest (of Jesuit origin), so it could be a son or otherwise related person to Aloys Mühlbauer. But one never knows, Voynich changed the spelling of his surname when he immigrated ("naturalized"?). At least Behrle's son got enganged in the business.
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Back to the original topic, I think it safe to narrow down the dating of Voynich's catalogue #31 to 1909 - 1913.
RE: Voynich’s Viennese Agency - Anton - 04-11-2017
(04-11-2017, 05:16 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Anton:
Quote:Sliwinski is mentioned in papers around the time, but I can't find where they would be mentioned together with Stapinski.From the link I gave above:
Związek Chłopski został odtworzony You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. jako organizacja prosanacyjna. Funkcjonował w tej formule do czasu utworzenia You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. „grupy chłopskiej” wewnątrz You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., którego stał się częścią i zakończył swoją działalność. W tym czasie głównymi działaczami ZCh byli: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (prezes), Józef Kaźmierczak, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Both are mentioned as activists of the same organisation Związek Chłopski (ZCh). It was later, but it doesn't mean that they hadn't political and ideological connections earlier.
Of course, it is in the case, if the second surname is Stapinski. I'm not sure about this, too.
What I mean is that they are not mentioned together in October 1912 newspapers. Either the author of the letter means some other papers (non-Austrian) - which would be strange, as they hardly would have descended to such local details as speeches in Lemberg - or the reference to the newspapers is just a covert trick to let Voynich have some important news about the two people mentioned. In this view, "have been speaking" might mean not delivering a speech, but something altoghether different.