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68r1 and 2 - Printable Version

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RE: 68r1 and 2 - voynichbombe - 24-12-2017

there are too many problems with this to begin with. if you can show me the "crux" i.e. southern cross in both (not modern) maps aligned, maybe..

sorry, any hobby astronomer would cringe, knowing history.


[Image: Southern_Celestial_Map_of_Mestre_Jo%C3%A3o_Faras.gif]

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Andrew Harrington - 24-12-2017

I am not sure I know exactly what you mean, or the relevance of a Southern constellation that may not have been individually identified when the manuscript was written. Please can you explain what you mean and your reasoning.

Andrew

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Searcher - 12-10-2019

As the three diagrams are depicted on the same big page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (f68r1-f68r3), I think they must be related to each other. I remember different experiments on the contents of these folios, and I want to show my one (hope I didn't missed if someone have already done this). My attention was payed to the stars with circle-points in their centers, as my thought was that it also can be some indication. Thus, I marked them and connected in a few ways. To be honest, my hope was to see something similar to a certain constellation. Unfortunately, I couldn't discern any obvious resemblance with famous constellations. Besides of it, it is not quite correct to compare those schemes to modern drawings of constellations. Therefore I need your opinion.
A ll I could note is the similarity of the three shapes of the star configurations of the f68r1 to the shapes formed of stars in the sectors of the f68r3. It would be a great success to see that the stars with central points of the f68r2 show something similar to the content of the fourth sector of the f68r3, but they don't. Those stars form a bit another "constellation".
Thoughts?
   
   
   

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Paris - 12-10-2019

Hi Searcher

Your third picture of folio 68r1 reminds me of the constellation of Cassiopeia.
The W-shape is typical of this constellation.
(Sorry, I don't know how to modify the size of the pictures.)
   

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Monica Yokubinas - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 07:24 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As the three diagrams are depicted on the same big page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (f68r1-f68r3), I think they must be related to each other. I remember different experiments on the contents of these folios, and I want to show my one (hope I didn't missed if someone have already done this). My attention was payed to the stars with circle-points in their centers, as my thought was that it also can be some indication. Thus, I marked them and connected in a few ways. To be honest, my hope was to see something similar to a certain constellation. Unfortunately, I couldn't discern any obvious resemblance with famous constellations. Besides of it, it is not quite correct to compare those schemes to modern drawings of constellations. Therefore I need your opinion.
A ll I could note is the similarity of the three shapes of the star configurations of the f68r1 to the shapes formed of stars in the sectors of the f68r3. It would be a great success to see that the stars with central points of the f68r2 show something similar to the content of the fourth sector of the f68r3, but they don't. Those stars form a bit another "constellation".
Thoughts?
page 68r1 is the summer solstice and page 68r2 is the winter one. You have to mirror the image on 68r2 to get the stars to align up. Page 68r3 are the 4 guardians of Persian lore. hopefully the link works. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Searcher - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 09:01 PM)Paris Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Searcher
Your third picture of folio 68r1 reminds me of the constellation of Cassiopeia.
The W-shape is typical of this constellation.

Hi Paris! Thanks. I thought about Cassiopeia. But if this diagram depicts circumpolar area with Polaris and Cassiopeia, the rest (the second shape) hardly fit to that constellation that appears in that region. Theoretically, if it is the opposite to Cassiopeia constellation, it can be Draco or Ursa Major (I wouldn't expect the exactness of the positions in this diagram).

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Searcher - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 09:03 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.page 68r1 is the summer solstice and page 68r2 is the winter one. You have to mirror the image on 68r2 to get the stars to align up. Page 68r3 are the 4 guardians of Persian lore. hopefully the link works. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Hi Monica! Is your idea built on the shapes formed of stars or just on the names to the stars interpreted by you?

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Monica Yokubinas - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 09:57 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(12-10-2019, 09:03 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.page 68r1 is the summer solstice and page 68r2 is the winter one. You have to mirror the image on 68r2 to get the stars to align up. Page 68r3 are the 4 guardians of Persian lore. hopefully the link works. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Hi Monica! Is your idea built on the shapes formed of stars or just on the names to the stars interpreted by you?
Both
I couldn't find the stars mapped just based on the picture. But some of the stars listed do have names similar in Arabic from the very old charts.

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Aga Tentakulus - 13-10-2019

     I do not know if 68r1 and 68r2 have something to do with the solstice. But think it is probable. But with 99% certainty, 68r3 is the beginning of spring. It is no coincidence that the bull is in the Zodiac in spring. And the whole thing has been valid for 10'000 years.

RE: 68r1 and 2 - Koen G - 20-10-2019

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but there is some similarity between these folios and creation imagery, notably the Fourth Day when Sun, Moon and stars were assigned their place.

   

Source: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The most significant difference is the presence of labels with the stars, which points towards astronomy. On the other hand, the seemingly haphazard placement in a circle is similar.