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+--- Thread: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions (/thread-2041.html)
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - nickpelling - 18-08-2017
Voynich research is easy, but constructing a Voynich research programme - by which I mean a concerted attack on an aspect of it that stands a chance of leading to genuine knowledge - is extraordinarily hard.
There's a big difference between the two.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - -JKP- - 18-08-2017
My biggest problem is finding time to write up all the information I have. It's overwhelming to try to describe something that took years to accumulate, study, and organize.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - Emma May Smith - 18-08-2017
(18-08-2017, 11:21 AM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Voynich research is easy, but constructing a Voynich research programme - by which I mean a concerted attack on an aspect of it that stands a chance of leading to genuine knowledge - is extraordinarily hard.
There's a big difference between the two.
No, not really. I think most successful researchers, like most failed ones, are simply obsessives who will look at the same thing a hundred times hoping to see something new. The difference is luck and intelligence, or even pure stubbornness.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - MarcoP - 18-08-2017
(12-08-2017, 10:20 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The question I really wanted to address in this post is: how much effort and energy should one put in trying to show that any theory is wrong?
Is it worth the effort?
My impression is that:
1) Much of the worst stuff that one reads is a form of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I don't think anyone can believe that “banis oleoris croque et potis” is Latin, or that the output of a trivial google images search has the same value as the documented opinion of well respected scholars. All those who publish their ideas expect attention (sharing ideas with others is the only point of publishing things), but some people seem to be exclusively motivated by their need of attention. They even write it explicitly, begging for more mentions of their name and their ramblings.
2) It's easier to find arguments disrupting something poorly researched than to find arguments adding to a serious research.
The combined effect of (1) and (2) is that bad research is encouraged by how easy it is to write and the relatively high number of comments it receives (it really doesn't make a difference if they are positive or negative). Any attention seeker will soon notice that there is no correlation between the amount of research in his posts and the quantity of comments: he will write even worse, less researched and more arrogantly stated posts.
I think a way out is making the extra effort needed to follow more serious research, trying to add something to whatever one finds truly worth reading. I also believe that ignoring all poorly researched stuff typically is the best course of action. But of course this is a hobby and sometimes one feels like going for some fun-but-useless argument rather than hard-and-possibly-fruitless systematic research.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - Koen G - 18-08-2017
There's definitely something to that, Marco. I've often read a good post and thought 'I have nothing to add to this'. Actually in such cases it might be better to leave a message of appreciation. After all authors might like to know which research resonates with others.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - Torsten - 18-08-2017
(18-08-2017, 11:21 AM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Voynich research is easy, but constructing a Voynich research programme - by which I mean a concerted attack on an aspect of it that stands a chance of leading to genuine knowledge - is extraordinarily hard.
There's a big difference between the two.
If it is extraordinarily hard, a possible reason might be that you are trying to read something into the manuscript that does not exist there.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - nickpelling - 18-08-2017
(18-08-2017, 02:40 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-08-2017, 11:21 AM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Voynich research is easy, but constructing a Voynich research programme - by which I mean a concerted attack on an aspect of it that stands a chance of leading to genuine knowledge - is extraordinarily hard.
There's a big difference between the two.
If it is extraordinarily hard, a possible reason might be that you are trying to read something into the manuscript that does not exist there.
Planning and acting are two different types of activity. Almost no Voynich research is consciously planned, it's almost all a bunch of people trying stuff on no more than a whim.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - Torsten - 18-08-2017
(18-08-2017, 04:02 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-08-2017, 02:40 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(18-08-2017, 11:21 AM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Voynich research is easy, but constructing a Voynich research programme - by which I mean a concerted attack on an aspect of it that stands a chance of leading to genuine knowledge - is extraordinarily hard.
There's a big difference between the two.
If it is extraordinarily hard, a possible reason might be that you are trying to read something into the manuscript that does not exist there.
Planning and acting are two different types of activity. Almost no Voynich research is consciously planned, it's almost all a bunch of people trying stuff on no more than a whim.
The VMS has many unique features. Therefore it might be a good idea to use a plan for researching something unknown. However the most intuitive plan for researching something unknown is to compare it with something already known. The problem with this plan is that you will spend a lot of time while searching for traces of features that are not even there. It would be probably much more effective if you would research the unique features of the VMS.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - VViews - 18-08-2017
Hi Torsten,
to your post above, how would we know a Voynich feature is unique, without first carrying out an extensive survey to make sure nothing else is comparable?
I agree this leads us to a lot of dead ends, and I understand it may seem ineffective, but how else can we be sure of the uniqueness of any Voynich feature?
"Unknown" is after all a relative notion. What may seem unique to me because I don't know of anything comparable, can be well-known or familiar to someone with a different background or skill set.
IMO this makes nickpelling's point about "concerted attacks" the most promising avenue, and the collaborative potential of a forum like this one offers a great platform for such cooperation.
RE: Voynich theories and Voynich solutions - Koen G - 18-08-2017
I'm a big fan of coordinated efforts, but those usually turn out to be somewhat, well, uncoordinated.
I think you either need a group of people who all stand one hundred percent behind the same project, or a dedicated leader who coordinates everything and decides when the others can't agree.
Still, I'd encourage anyone with an idea to post it to the forum tasks. It might just work.