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+--- Thread: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" (/thread-2036.html)
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - Koen G - 17-09-2017
Sounds like a good addition to the library section.
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - ReneZ - 17-09-2017
It should now be accessible You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - ReneZ - 17-09-2017
"A G" = Aldo Gritti?
A scary possibility.
More probably a (big) coincidence.
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - Fabrizio Salani - 17-09-2017
Dear Renè,
happy to hear you again.
I insert the image of the cover and the page nr 30 of the 1908 Voynich's catalogue. I know that you well anderstand Italian, so I put the traduction for the others. If you need an entire scanning of the catalogue, please let me know, I will send it to you. About “Aldo Gritti” this is the pseudonym of a writer gesuit priest who wants to keep anonymity as told me by the editor cause he seems to be an high prelate of the roman church (!?) that writes in 2012 the fantasy novel about the ms Voynich titled “I custodi della pergamena proibita – Il thriller che svela il mistero del codice Voynich” “The Guardians of Forbidden Parchment - The thriller revealing the mystery of the Voynich code”, as you know. I think this is only a pure coincidence. All is possible at this world but I don't think that a gesuit priest make a fake and he disperses it in Italy with the hope that someone can find it and analyze it and associate it with his name, resulting in a loss of credibility and identify him like a forger. I also have aquired in 2016 from an antiquarian bookseller in U.S.A. the original review “Scientific American” dated May 28, 1921. This is the first article in the world regarding the ms, during the exposition of it in Philadelphia, that talk about the manuscript known at that time as “The Cypher of Roger Bacon” and in U.K. Others articles about Voynich and the manuscript (all documents are originals).
----------From the catalogue of 1908 -----------------
[font=Arial, sans-serif]Politianus, Angelus. Oratio pro Oratoribus Senensium ad Alexandrum VI Pont. Max. — Maynus, Jaso. Oratio coram eodem Alexandro VI pro obedentia Ducis Mediolanensium ubi describitur situs Hispaniarum. Roma, [Min. Calvus], (ca. 1515), in-40 picc, car. rom., 13 ff. e 1 f. bianco segn., con bordura in legno sul frontispizio, marocchino.[/font]
The speech of Mayno is of utmost importance for the history of the discovery of America. This speech, delivered on December 13, 1492, contains the following passage:
« Patria tibi est Hispania, cuius orientale et septentrionale latus Pyrenei montes undequaque includunt. Reliquae partes usque ad Herculeas gades et Borealem oceanum protenduntur. Quae in eo montium et a oceani maris ambitu includuntur quasi alterum orbem facientia ad Hispaniam spectant, cuius latitudo et longitudo tam multa, tam ampla,
et tam immensa est, ut plus habeat admirationis quam credulitatis…>.
This passage clearly shows that they had full knowledge of the existence of extensive land in the Atlantic before Columbus returned from his first voyage. It is clear that this note does not refer to the Azores or other islands of Portugal. Considering the latest research by Henry Vignaud this fact is certainly very significant, however, as this is not the place to deal with such an argument, we leave any discussion to the authorities.
_________________________________
This wrote W. M. Voynich in 1908 !!!
-------------------------------------------------
P.S.:
1) MAYNUS JASO = GIASONE DEL MAYNO
I have found the original book in the biblioteque of the University of Bologna and in Venice and
I'm continuing the studies and the researches about these informations.
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - Fabrizio Salani - 17-09-2017
The cover and a page of "Scientific American" dated 1921
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - ReneZ - 17-09-2017
Hello Fabrizio,
many thanks for the illustrations of the catalogue. I also found the one shown in Gritti's book.
There is a great deal of mystery surrounding this novel (which I have not read - maybe I should). We met someone involved with it (but we don't know in which role) at the Mondragone conference in 2012, and I have come away with the impression that that was a bit of a (small) P.R. stunt:
he announced himself as someone who would made an additional presentation about Strickland, but instead told a story how the Voynich MS was linked with the sinking of the Titanic.
Anyway, the 'Gritti crowd' (as they were known for a while after the appearance of the book), have done quite some research about the discovery of the Voynich MS, and we actually learned a few details from that, in particular about the author of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
I am also very happy to see the 1904 newspaper clip, which dates the picture of Voynich behind his desk, and clarifies that this was in his Soho office.
No need to look for the Voynich MS on the shelves behind him :-)
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - voynichbombe - 17-09-2017
From the catalogue covers, does this indicate Voynich had another shop in Warszaw?
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - Helmut Winkler - 17-09-2017
I was wondering, too. I can't imagine him being removed from the Ochrana's search lists,
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - ReneZ - 18-09-2017
In 1904 he obtained UK citizenship, which protected him a bit.
During his trips to the continent, he was occasionally shadowed by Russian agents, and he and his wife made a point of identifying the agents in question and offering them cups of coffee.
Whether he ever visited the Polish office, I don't know. Having it was one way of occasionally helping Poles in trouble to move over to the West. This was risky for him, as occasionally these people were not really Poles in trouble, but agents.
Later, he also had similar subsidiaries in Paris and Vienna.
(Sorry for the OT).
RE: A possible source for the "modern italian copy" - Barbrey - 30-07-2021
Old thread, but I got here from a newer one, where I also posted something similar.
My first impression of the AG seal was that it was a personalized or stylized Masonic symbol. It doesn't have the square at the bottom that I can see but it is a G within an A (compass?). Was this discussed already?
Masons were big in Italy in the 18th/19th though at times suppressed. I just googled a few of their seal rings and they do have the G within compass symbol.
If it IS a Mason symbol (can we ask them what they think? Anyone a Mason or know one?), then a whole lot of conjecture springs to mind.
But one in particular from me: I had noticed a few weird coincidences on the Rosettes page that made me wonder whether the Rosicrucians had a hand in it or saw it, and whether there was a connection to Book M that Yates mentions. That eventually brought me to Nick Pelling's Book M speculation and he had noticed other things. Searcher independently saw a few too: both of us wondered about the dew from heaven motto, and the 37 reasons of the Rosicrucians. (Note, in my schemata, the top left rosette has multiple but connected symbolic meanings, one of which is the higher soul/spirit, sometimes called Mind of God, or Reason. It has 37 moons inside it - so 37 Reasons struck a familiar but discordant key. It just seemed really specific. My interpretation of that layer of meaning is based on the hermetica, and since both Mason and Rosicrucian orders are heavily based on hermetic traditions, it would not be surprising if they also saw that sphere as Mind or Reason. But nowhere in the hermetica are 37 Reasons mentioned. Hence my curiosity: had they seen the Voynich Rosettes page?).
Bringing this back to topic: I can't help but wonder if the VMS might have been copied around the time Nick Pelling suggested the Rosicrucian founder perhaps might have seen it. That's putting aside the notion that it might have been created then as a bogus Book M, but rather copied, in part or in whole, as inspiration and basis for the fictitious Book M. And many Masons were also Rosicrucians.
Because then the idea of this page being copied from a different copy of the VMS has just a tiny bit of evidence to support it, I think. Or at least a pre-existing hypothesis/speculation.
But of course it could have been copied at any time in its history. And A G might turn out to be Agnes Grimm or something!
Still...