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+--- Thread: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet (/thread-1936.html)
The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Anton - 08-06-2017
I was thinking about the Voynich alphabet the other day at some interesting angle. Let's say the Voynich alphabet is a constructed alphabet. In other words, it's not taken from any script existing apriori, but rather invented by the guy(s) behind the Voynich. (This may be the case irrespectively of whether it conveys a cipher, an artificial language or even a natural language).
Now, it is often noted that many Voynich symbols resemble medieval Latin abbreviations. However, the abbreviations were quite various, while great part of the Voynich alphabet revolves around the "base shape + modifier (mostly tail modifier, but not exclusively)" scheme, where the two predominant base shapes are e and i, - as also already noted (by Cham and those before him). Let's suppose this is the real principle of construction, and not mere visibilty. That the guy indeed "constructed" characters by combining e and i shapes with modifiers. And, btw, a is e plus i.
Then the question emerges - why these two shapes, in particular? Have they had any special significance anywhere else - whether textually, graphically or semiotically? Where could they have been "borrowed" from, and why?
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - -JKP- - 08-06-2017
It's possible the shapes were chosen to resemble Latin.
The letters o, a, c (and c with tail), i (and i with tail, which resembles an r if the tail is at the top and a v if the tail is at the bottom) are all VMS glyphs that can be matched to Latin characters. Also the 9 and the bench char are common Latin abbreviations that fit the theme of curve shapes.
Even the gallows characters have analogs in Latin, especially the two-legged, one-loop gallows.
Now whether there's a linguistic or numberic schema behind them that includes some correspondence beyond the similarity and logic that may be inherent in the shapes is the big question.
The 4 x 17 page also includes four Greek letters in sequence, three of which fit the curve thema quite well (alpha, beta and gamma-with-a-tail) and one which is straight lines (delta), but the straight one is a rare character, the others are common, so maybe the curved ones were deliberately chosen for the main text.
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Koen G - 08-06-2017
Not my area of expertise, but one of the things that always strikes me about the VM script is that, compared to some contemporary scripts, it is very easy to read. As if it's been designed to be read by people with only very basic reading skills.
(This is, by the way, one of the factors which allows many amateurs easy access to the VM. If it were written in a more fluent way, they just wouldn't be able to transcribe it).
Maybe it's like JKP says. If you build up a writing system out of these particular strokes, you'll get something that looks like Latin cursive. But in the case of the VM, it is more accessible for the untrained eye.
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Anton - 08-06-2017
(08-06-2017, 04:14 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's possible the shapes were chosen to resemble Latin.
The letters o, a, c (and c with tail), i (and i with tail, which resembles an r if the tail is at the top and a v if the tail is at the bottom) are all VMS glyphs that can be matched to Latin characters. Also the 9 and the bench char are common Latin abbreviations that fit the theme of curve shapes.
Even the gallows characters have analogs in Latin, especially the two-legged, one-loop gallows.
Now whether there's a linguistic or numberic schema behind them that includes some correspondence beyond the similarity and logic that may be inherent in the shapes is the big question.
The 4 x 17 page also includes four Greek letters in sequence, three of which fit the curve thema quite well (alpha, beta and gamma-with-a-tail) and one which is straight lines (delta), but the straight one is a rare character, the others are common, so maybe the curved ones were deliberately chosen for the main text.
I guess you did not understand quite well what I tried to express. It is: why pick "c" and "i" (this not a common "i", but "i" at an angle counter-clockwise) as base shapes among numerous other opportunities? Might they have been "borrowed" from somewhere?
One possible answer is that they resemble letters themselves. Not many other opportunities - I can think of the vertical (which actually seems to be used as well), dash, underscore, geometric shapes (circle, square, triangle, star) - not many of them resemble letters. And picking them as base shapes would make the text less "language-like". Imagine if a square were used for "с", and a triangle for "i".
But why would "i" be so strangely inclined leftwards?
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - -JKP- - 08-06-2017
(08-06-2017, 11:48 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
But why would "i" be so strangely inclined leftwards?
I've been asking that question since I first saw the VMS and I don't have an answer, but I have found a small handful of manuscripts in which the stems are inclined backwards, perhaps for the same reason, perhaps for a different reason.
I suspect the ones I have seen in other manuscripts are inclined because they were written by left-handed scribes.
In the VMS, I suspect they may be inclined either because whoever developed the VMS glyph-set was accustomed to a different kind of alphabet OR because the inclination intentionally sets certain letters apart from traditional Latin letters. The inclination certainly looks very deliberate and is pretty much maintained throughout with only a small percentage of exceptions.
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Anton - 08-06-2017
Left-handed-ness is the obvious explanation, but I recall that it was discussed and rejected in the past. I completely forgot the argumentation, but I remember that I considered it reasonable. I can add that since lefthanders are a minotity, it's not very probable that both A and B were lefthanders.
The inclination may be intended to follow some (invisible) markup or may obey principles of some device utilized (if any). I remember seeing a suggested markup of a Voynich folio on the internet featuring diagonal lines from top left to bottom right. I don't remember who posted it and what s/he meant. But it's not a bad idea that if such markup does mean anything for the structure of the text, then "i" might follow it.
But returning to the idea of my title post, I suggest that the "i" shape may have been borrowed "as is" from some other context, so the question is - whence?
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - ReneZ - 08-06-2017
I prefer to be very careful here.
I don't remember how strong the past arguments for right-handedness were, and whether they were made by someone with expertise in handwriting analysis.
It could be that the present argument is stronger.
It is also far from certain that Hands 1 and 2 belong to different people.
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Koen G - 08-06-2017
(08-06-2017, 02:20 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is also far from certain that Hands 1 and 2 belong to different people.
A person does have two hands all by himself.
Anton: do you mean that the "i" shape is so uncommon in contemporary scripts?
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - Helmut Winkler - 08-06-2017
I would venture the opinion that I have not seen anything in the VMs which does not appear in contemporary script
RE: The origin of the base shapes of the Voynich alphabet - -JKP- - 08-06-2017
(08-06-2017, 01:34 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Left-handed-ness is the obvious explanation, but I recall that it was discussed and rejected in the past. I completely forgot the argumentation, but I remember that I considered it reasonable. I can add that since lefthanders are a minotity, it's not very probable that both A and B were lefthanders.
Unless they were siblings, or father and son, working on the project together, something that was pretty common in the middle ages since it was typically fathers who taught their sons to write. Daughters were rarely taught to write unless they were nobility. Handedness is genetic.
It might be significant that Voynichese and Latin characters are mixed on the last page. It's not just the two Voynichese tokens on the bottom left, but also the backward-leaning straight leg in "vix" that looks Voynichese.