+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Library and Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-35.html)
+--- Forum: Codicology and Paleography (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-48.html)
+--- Thread: [Trinity] Plant identification in Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium (/thread-1888.html)
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 30-04-2017
(30-04-2017, 10:21 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not certain of this one, does it say it grows in the mountains in Syria and....??
There is also a color annotation in one of the leaves (inset). f.238v top.
I read "Syrie et advene".
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could stand for a generic "foreign country" (but the word really seems to only apply to people / immigrants). Or it could be a corruption of "Armeni[a]e". Both ideas seem rather far-fetched to me, I possibly prefer the second one, but I it's quite unreliable.
Thank you for pointing out the color annotation. This seems to be "a[ur]eu[s]" - golden.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 01-05-2017
I have examined the text of Herba Romeys, at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I think there cannot be any doubt of a relation between this plant and plant 34 in the Alchemical Herbal (Herba Lucia or Luccia or Lucea). Herba Lucia is represented as a pike fish ("luccio" is the pike fish in Italian).
Herba Lucia is mentioned twice in the description of Herba Romeys, as well as the related "Herba Borissa" ("borixea" here). Borissa is not included in the Alchemical Herbal, but possibly points to an earlier tradition that influenced both the Alchemical Herbal and the author of this part of the Cambridge ms. More details on this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Curiously, the shape of the root of Romeys does not derive from its similarity with Lucia. The text says that the root is dragon-like (line 12).
Most of the text is devoted to the description of the effects of a magical green stone to be found inside the root. You can read what I understood of the text You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 01-05-2017
Wonderful, Marco. How would you interpret this similarity? Do you think it might point to a common source text?
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 01-05-2017
(01-05-2017, 12:10 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wonderful, Marco. How would you interpret this similarity? Do you think it might point to a common source text?
Yes
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I linked above seems very promising to me. In the "Manoscritti" tab she provides a list of manuscripts with texts about Borissa. If they are ancient enough, they could be a common source. Lucia is referred to as "One of Nine" plants, so it must have originally appeared in a collection of nine plants, but it might also be the collection of 19 plants mentioned by Ciuonzo (Liber de virtutibus herbarum decem et novem).
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 01-05-2017
Damn, too bad I have no time today, just replying from my phone. It looks like a promising line of investigation. I wonder if the rainbow leaf plants have something to do with this, they look rather mythical.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - ReneZ - 01-05-2017
I was also wondering about a relationship with the alchemical herbals.
A bit earlier, on fol. 209v (at the top) is a herb that looks a lot like 'Herba Victoria' (known from recent discussions about colour annotations in the Vicenza MS).
A bit further, on fol. 211v (centre) and again on 212r (top) are lunaria plants.
Time-wise, this is quite 'tight' since the earliest known alchemical herbals that have survived seem to be contemporary with this MS.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 01-05-2017
If we are looking for a series of mythological plants possibly related to heavenly bodies, I noticed there are a number of plants in the surrounding folios which share some features, notably circular or crescent shaped leaves and often exotic origins. Might some of these be related?
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 01-05-2017
It's really interesting that these images that look quite arbitrary are actually faithful to the text. Some passages from the plants Rene and Koen pointed out above:
208v ...the leaves are round and many, red in color, with green spots
211v ...with leaves similar to the new moon. At the top of the central stem it has a blue flower with the same shape as a lily
214v ...the leaves are similar to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Closed flowers with long stalks hang from the stems.
I haven't spotted any astrological reference in the text yet. Adding to what Koen already pointed out, the structure of plant descriptions in this section seems to be:
- common, Greek, Hebraic names
- habitat
- description of the appearance the plant - leaves, flowers, fruits, roots
- smell of the plant (optional)
- uses of the plant
- recipes involving other ingredients (optional)
- when to pick the plant (month names, with no mention of zodiac signs)
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 02-05-2017
That's such a good match between text and picture. One would almost think the text is describing the image and not the other way around.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - ReneZ - 02-05-2017
When interpreting old illustrated herbals, one is perhaps tempted to apply modern ideas, but these are often not valid.
The idea that the illustration is there to aid in identifying the herb seems completely logical, but this is not at all given.
Care for detail started becoming normal with the innovations in the 16th Century (Fuchs, Brunfels).
I can only recommend (again) for anyone really interested in this area to read Minta Collins, because these issues are clearly explained.
It covers more relevant ground than any other book about illustrated herbals and is the best available primer.
A much shorter book, also covering the age of printing, is the good old 'Blunt and Raphael: The illustrated herbal (1979)'.
It is also very well illustrated and even mentions the Voynich MS.