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+--- Thread: [Trinity] Parallels between Voynich and Trinity College MS O.2.48 (/thread-1887.html)
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 27-04-2017
There may be much more. Comparing VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. to Trinity You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The leaves are obvious and not too special since there are more leaves like this. But add to that blue in the flowers and the shape of the root...
Also adding VM You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - Trinity You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 27-04-2017
Spam Spam Spam
VM f46v, Trinity You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. One stalk, parallel leaves with remarkable shape, blue in stalk, blue in flower "cup". Trinity root unfortunately missing.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Wladimir D - 27-04-2017
Paradoxically!!!
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 27-04-2017
I am still lost about “barthifos” (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. second plant of the left). In theory, the names in other languages should be helpful, but I am more familiar with Latin than the other sources mentioned here.
I guess the abbreviation at the end of the Hebrew name is something like a superscript “9” and should stand for -us: “landufius”?.
The Tartar “columbanos” / “columbanes” sounds very Latin to me: I think it either is not Tartar or was badly corrupted. Searcher's suggestion of Vervain is consistent with this name (taken as a Latin name) but not with the other data. As pointed out by Koen, the text says that the plant grows in India. It also says that the leaves look like hands. Likely this is an exotic plant, whose illustration was freely created on the basis of the text.
As a very tentative candidate, I would suggest “rabarbarus indicus”, i.e. rheum palmatum.
Pros:
- it came from India (at least, that's what Indicus implies)
- “rabarbarus” is vaguely reminiscent of “barthifos”
- “palmatum” etymologically means “hand-like”
I have no idea of what the center plant in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (center) could be. The name “abremis” could suggest “artemisia”, but the plant doesn't look much like mugwort?
The plant in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (“pentadactilus”?) that Koen has paralleled with Voynich You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is Ricinus Communis, one of the identifications that date back to Ethel Voynich (I attach the illustration from the Vienna Dioscorides for comparison). I also find the Cambridge illustration a particularly good match!
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 27-04-2017
Thanks Marco. It is indeed possible that the drawing was generated purely based on the text - this must be true for the leaves at least. But the parallel in the roots and the top flower do seem to point towards some common example.
I find the presence of some hard to identify exotics rather fascinating. The plant I linked in my previous post is said to grow in Ethiopia and Arabia.
Edit: I must have read the Ricinus ID before but it totally slipped my mind. I agree that this must be it.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - -JKP- - 27-04-2017
(27-04-2017, 01:23 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Spam Spam Spam
VM f46v, Trinity You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. One stalk, parallel leaves with remarkable shape, blue in stalk, blue in flower "cup". Trinity root unfortunately missing.
The one on the left has parallel leaves. The one on the right has basal leaves.
The one on the left has the kind of flowers you find on snap-dragons and other plants with tubular flowers. The one on the right has flowers like a daisy, flowers in the aster family.
The one on the left has flowers coming out of the leaf nodes and the stems are straight. The one on the right has flowers coming from a central stalk that curls.
I will grant that the leaves are similar, deeply toothed and with hastate "tails", but the other parts of the plant are quite different and those kinds of leaves are found on quite a few species.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - MarcoP - 27-04-2017
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is indeed another tough one.
The names "deronica" and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. point to "doronicum", which does belong to the aster family. But doronicum is a European plant with yellow flowers, and the Cambridge ms says it is from Africa with purple flowers.
Linné speaks of one You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that grows in Ethiopia, but from the description this seems to have white flowers.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - ReneZ - 27-04-2017
Deronici is one of the standard herbs in Tractatus de Herbis, but it looks very different.
Note also that the first herb on the next page looks quite similar to this one. Its name seems to read 'malabatus'.
This looks similar to the herb 'Malabatrum' again from the Tractatus, but also that one looks very different again.
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - Koen G - 27-04-2017
JKP: I agree that isn't the best match, and indeed afterwards I noticed that there are more leaves like this in the Cambridge MS. Would you really classify the VM plant leaves as basal though?
RE: Trinity College MS O.2.48 Apuleii Herbarium - -JKP- - 27-04-2017
(27-04-2017, 06:29 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP: I agree that isn't the best match, and indeed afterwards I noticed that there are more leaves like this in the Cambridge MS. Would you really classify the VM plant leaves as basal though?
Yes, mostly. Even basal leaves sometimes come slightly up the stalk and some plants with basal clusters have a leaf or two (usually smaller ones) up the stalk (sometimes a different shape from the basal leaves).
They are certainly basal compared to the Trinity plant, but I'll agree they are slightly alternate and not strictly a basal whorl.
There are plants with basal whorls that are quite symmetric, and others with basal leaves, not quite as symmetric, but mostly at the base of the plant. Lots of gray scale in the plant world.
I've already gone through this manuscript and identified many of the plants, but I can't get at my files right now. Later today I'll have a look to see if I have anything of relevance to this thread.