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+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! (/thread-1879.html)
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - -JKP- - 16-05-2017
Yes, it's possible. It's also possible it's one of the many hundreds of castles that were destroyed or rebuilt in another style.
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 16-05-2017
(16-05-2017, 09:12 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, it's possible. It's also possible it's one of the many hundreds of castles that were destroyed or rebuilt in another style.
@JKP and Koen
You guys may find interest in this video, Ferrara, Schifanoia.
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 16-05-2017
![[Image: stars1.png]](https://voynichalberticipher.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/stars1.png)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. image for June 17, 1467. (ABOVE AND BELOW IMAGES HERE)!
While searching for any reference that Duke Ercole d’ Este was influenced by astrology regarding war. Although, the quote is not connected to the Battle of Molinella, its claims that Ercole used astrolgy for battles is now a proof. I came across a pdf “Heroes of the Nations”, from which the quote was taken. It is available for download @ voynichalberticipher.wordpress.com.
[font=Karla, sans-serif]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font]
[font=Karla, sans-serif]In this post I cannot be completely be sure that a star map, regarding f68r1 of the Voynich Manuscript was used for a horoscope leading up to the “Battle of Molinella”, but its inference may relate to it. I will attempt to posit this, autem daiin, for its strong relationship built on two horoscopes cast by myself using Solar Fire casting for June 17, 1467 and July 25, 1467. Lets see what the relationships were for these moments in time, by an astrologers perspective and the possible indications for success or failure on the battle field for the dates used. Remember the Battle of Molinella was more or less a stalemate.[/font]
“The Marquis of Saluzzo
brought up his Alpine infantry, which had been
landed at Pisa, while Ercole d Este, Duke of Ferrara,
condescended to take the command in chief. For
this, however, the propitious hour had not yet arrived,
and while the Neapolitans were picking up posts in
the Chianti, the Duke awaited the astrologer s command.”
![[Image: star-map-molinella-june.gif]](https://voynichalberticipher.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/star-map-molinella-june.gif)
A month early on June 17, 1466 planets evenly balance, trines (Triangles) good for success and depending on when the battle starts a month later for Molinella maybe victory. Also if the engagement is timed right Mars could be in Aries. Another successful trait.
![[Image: battle-plan-molinella-june-17-1467.jpg]](https://voynichalberticipher.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/battle-plan-molinella-june-17-1467.jpg)
Prognostication for July 25, 1467 looks good and bad for success or failure for a battle which starts in the after noon. However Mars is on the cusp, but in Pisces slightly, a sign of indecision at times. Yet Mars is about ambition and success. Also notice the planets all favor one side of the Zodiac and many squares this spells a stalemate to me, because squares are negative.
Your ruling planets Mars (the God of War) bring you the strength and determination to accomplish your goals.
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Aries is ruled by Mars
The God of war, Mars represents the desire to move forward, improve and change. A primal and powerful force which demands change and progress. Conceptually Mars represents ambition, passion, drive, initiation, impulse, assertiveness and the courage needed to start something.
Aries is associated with the 1st house
The first house symbolizes how others see us. A combination of our physical body, style, image, behavior, mannerisms, grooming habits. Conceptually the first house also represents the beginning of an activity, first impressions, what we bring to a situation, early childhood.
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![[Image: update.jpg]](https://voynichalberticipher.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/update.jpg)
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - R. Sale - 16-05-2017
This is all very interesting, but I fail to see any substantive connection to the VMs. I don't see how this method can work consistently when used by different individuals. The VMs glyphs have too many letter equivalents. On the other hand, a one-to-one equivalent has also been eliminated. Would it be possible to create a system that used two, three or four letter equivalents consistently and worked for all words - and yielded a text that made sense?
The use of White Aries as the base for the hypothesis of discovering obscure linguistic patterns is rather amusing to me. It's like examining some small feature on an image of a person's face in great detail, but not recognizing the identity of the person represented. May I suggest the topic of heraldry? Plain old medieval heraldry. How were important persons recognized in that era? By patterns and objects that were indicative of heredity, rank, order, and position. All it takes to start the VMs investigation is to know and to recognize the example that was chosen by the VMs creator. And in the considerations of that era, the choice was one of significant and wide-spread familiarity among the literate members of society over a period of historical time.
A lot has been made, in certain circles, about the depth of preparation necessary to begin VMs investigations. And in certain areas, like the recognition of artistic style and the connections of art history, this is certainly valid. On the other hand, with a good reference, the basics of heraldry can be discovered in an afternoon, with time to spare - although connections to the VMs and the proper historical examples are another matter. The author has chosen an example with strong historical standing at the origin of a significant religious tradition. The test is whether the signs are recognized by the reader - but the modern reader is unfamiliar with the requisite details of the tradition and no recognition occurs. Meanwhile, the author's familiarity with the image represented has generated the need for some disguise through a bit of obfuscation.
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 17-05-2017
@ R-Sale Can you please explain this statement or elaborate in broader terms for this assesment?
Quote:The author has chosen an example with strong historical standing at the origin of a significant religious tradition.@ R-Sale I don't understand the quote below when You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.to me anyway deals with astrology as in a Zodiac series. I speculate and I can't substantiate this, but perhaps f71r has to do with timing some event.
Quote:May I suggest the topic of heraldry? Plain old medieval heraldry. How were important persons recognized in that era? By patterns and objects that were indicative of heredity, rank, order, and position.
Also I have thought about a four ring cipher, to transpose VMS glyph for a 1-1 basis that will maintain some what subjective randomness. Stay stunned. Perhaps I could look into a 4 ring Poly-alphabetic Cipher for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that Alberti may have built using the Pharaohs Cipher disk, we will see.
![[Image: pharaohs-cipher-disk.png]](https://voynichalberticipher.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/pharaohs-cipher-disk.png)
@ Rsale this statement below is obscure to me and I'm not quite sure if you are discussing the tubs as representing celestial objects like constellations.
Quote:Quote:Numerous members of the Catholic ecclesiastical hierarchy would certainly have the potential to posit this identification and immediately see that the characters are in their proper hierarchical places in the celestial spheres shown in the illustration
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RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - Koen G - 17-05-2017
Why do you want to maintain subjective randomness?
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 17-05-2017
(17-05-2017, 05:48 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why do you want to maintain subjective randomness?
I use this phrase, because when devices like this are used, the order for what looks like randomness, is a program. a code so to speak built on decisions which predict a certain pattern in the chaos.
Now true randomness is like pi where every number never repeats on the next step, but rarely for the next number. Pi is the greatest random generator in the universe and could be its secret.
@Koen have you ever played craps where the dice are evenly cut and the weight is as close as possible to all the dice. Patterns do arise in the chaos and there are fields involved with this whole study, "Patterns in the Chaos".
3.1415926535897932384626433832795
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 17-05-2017
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![[Image: smMorland_083906.jpg]](http://www.finebooksmagazine.com/fine_books_blog/smMorland_083906.jpg)
may find this file interesting since we are now discussing a possible method other than mine for cracking the VMS. Although these code rings look similar to alberti's there not his.
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - Koen G - 17-05-2017
But the thing with Voynichese is that it is not random at all. The problem with most, if not all proposed ciphers is that they can't explain Voynichese's rigid structure.
RE: If it feels like an Alberti Cipher it is one! - coded - 17-05-2017
(17-05-2017, 06:45 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the thing with Voynichese is that it is not random at all. The problem with most, if not all proposed ciphers is that they can't explain Voynichese's rigid structure.
?
Are you referring to Ziph's law with the VMS? I do think there is something really odd with the voynich, "t in eva" I find it impossible not to equal multiple letters which I feel are Latin. That being the case a key, more than one key maybe involved with its transcription to a Latin letter. As I feel other VMS letters too have multiple keys. I'm going to really focus on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and see if the turning mechanisms imputed with numbers and Latin side by side with VMS letters have an arrangement, using a double alberti cipher disk. That being the case two alberti encoders and two decoders, however the arrangement if found to decode VMS to Latin; that is more easily transferable so that others can do what I do will be put in my book only! If I do it I will describe it so that all could understand hopefully. Additionally, whole VMS vords maybe involved too on the wheel! I wish I knew the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. if there is one with the voynich lol
Oh and can you refresh me on the phrase Anton was using to describe the VMS structure, I'm having a mind block he wrote a long post on it and refereed to a book.
To be honest I was really excellent with math in high school, but now I feel brain drain and I need easy example. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In this example there is a clock which shows a possible relationship to what is going on in the VMS where numbers and increase by two each time. This could provide an example of how to approach a decoding method.