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+--- Thread: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" (/thread-1869.html)
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Koen G - 09-05-2018
Yup, the young branch came from the vine. I was surprised to see it myself. There were other sprouts elsewhere on the vine too, though it was mostly bare and undulating in the VM way. It was hanging loose from the canopy, though I assume at one point it must have somehow used the stem of the tree as support, since it was rooted right next to it.
The forest is really standard and well behaved, I'd be surprised if it were a rare or exotic species...
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - -JKP- - 09-05-2018
Hedera helix can get really big (I have photos somewhere of a huge one) but as you know, the leaves look nothing like this.
Maybe later in the year when it blossoms, you can take another stroll.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Wladimir D - 09-05-2018
We have a similar plant in the Caucasus. I made photos right now. I do not know exactly what this plant is called, but the fruit of the capsule is very similar to that of the Caucasian Dioscorea . Buds 6x8 mm. Now there are no flowers yet, but I remember that the flowers are white. The fruit capsule bursts in November, when the vine has already discarded the leaves. Seeds have a downy tail for the flight. If liana is cut off at the root, then in one season it will grow 6-8 m in height and give seeds.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Koen G - 09-05-2018
Looks like I must inspect the plant again next time I visit the forest
Back to the VM plant - could it be a kind of Rubus?
It wouldn't come to my mind at first, but there are a couple of indications:
- Rubus needs human intervention if you want it to climb. It needs to be attached to a support. This might explain the remarkable way the "vines" intersect with the stem. Note that we don't know the scale of the support - it might represent a tree, but the arrangement of the leaves indicates it's young growth.
- It's possible that the "berry clusters" in the VM are meant to represent the "bulbs" on some Rubus fruits, rather than individual berries.
- More so than with ivy, the berries may appear on sections of the plant that look leafless. However the species I know only start shedding their leaves when the berries have passed their expiration date...
Ivy top, blackberry bottom:
But as Wladimir notes, Dioscorea (like black bryony) does keep its berries after shedding the leaves. They aren't edible though, so I don't understand why they would be depicted in such a fashion...
On the other hand, I might add, there are hundreds of Rubus species, too many to check. If it were something common like blackberry it may have been portrayed differently.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - -JKP- - 10-05-2018
The bramble type of blackberry doesn't like to climb, but dewberries will climb. I've had them trailing from the top of my 8-foot-high Rhododendron. But they don't seem to twine much. The one in my yard sends one shoot to the top then dangles multiple branches back down to the ground like a shower curtain.
Plants that are very attractive to birds and squirrels don't usually retain the berries after the leaves have dropped. Even grapes are quickly scavenged. Around here, grapes are pillaged by the raccoons the day before they are ready to pick. Hedera berries are a feast for cedar waxwings—they're gone in a week.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Koen G - 27-05-2018
So I went to have another look today. Still no flowers, but the new shoots grew a lot. They are winding their way up along the old liana, i.e. the same plant's main stem. Quite strange. Attaching file from my phone, hope it works.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - -JKP- - 28-05-2018
I'm quite puzzled.
Most vines have heart-shaped leaves (e.g., smilax, bryony), palmate leaves (e.g., hedera), or odd-pinnate leaves (e.g., wisteria, jasmine). AND, most vine leaves alternate along the stem.
In contrast, these are elliptical and opposite. I know most of the common vines on sight, but I don't recognize this one. When I am able (at my other computer), I will look through my database and see if I have a vine with those characteristics.
I don't suppose it could be mock orange (Philadelphus) with unusually large leaves. It doesn't seem likely. Mock orange leaves are closer together and serrated and usually a darker shade of green. Maybe one of the elliptically leaved Loniceras, but I don't think they grow that big. Asian bittersweet can grow quite large and likes to twine, but the leaves are serrated.
Marsdenia leaves look somewhat like this but it's a tropical plant.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Koen G - 10-06-2018
![[Image: b490ff3c2e2627e91a305915c6421389.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/90/ff/b490ff3c2e2627e91a305915c6421389.jpg)
14th century French bag, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Looks like twining vines with oak leaves and red flowers.
Quote:This embroidery illustrates either a popular story or a courtly pastime. A lady and gentleman stand beneath a tree; she cradles a small dog under her arm and he offers her a flower or ring. This scene is commonly represented on fourteenth-century ivory mirror backs. The bag may have been made by a professional embroiderer or by the woman who carried it, inasmuch as skill in fine needlework was considered essential for ladies.
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - -JKP- - 06-08-2018
Hey, Koen, any blossoms on the mystery vine?
RE: [split] f35v parallels "oak and ivy" - Wladimir D - 06-08-2018
My memory let me down a bit. The flowers of this plant are five-petalled (star-shaped), 30 mm in diameter, white-green (not ornamental) with a red-brown stripe along the petal.
Fruit is a double pod, always fused at the end. Can it be referred to "bean" plants? Each seed has a feather tail for flight.
Young plant leaves are lanceolate. As the leaf grows, it turns into an oval
.