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+--- Thread: green water (/thread-184.html)
RE: green water - Davidsch - 14-10-2016
![[Image: 1280px-Lago_mucrone_da_monte_rosso.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Lago_mucrone_da_monte_rosso.jpg/1280px-Lago_mucrone_da_monte_rosso.jpg)
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RE: green water - -JKP- - 14-10-2016
(30-03-2016, 02:20 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I happened to read this article just now You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It reminded me of the Voynich waters so I looked for this thread. I'm glad to see juergen already mentioned the important part: many ancient cultures did not distinguish between blue and green. While we see these colours as totally different, they did not.
...
Most people know that green/red color blindness is quite common, especially males (it is a sex-linked genetic trait).
What they may not know is that blue/green color blindness (or difficulty distinguishing whether it's blue or green in the transitional area between the two) also occurs (it's not frequent, but it's not uncommon either), in both men and women.
RE: green water - Wladimir D - 13-03-2018
I have a question whether there are glass (transparent) windows in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . Why are they blue if the water is green? Or is it tiles/mosaic? Another question, is why in each "window" there is a hole / circle? Please - ideas!
RE: green water - -JKP- - 13-03-2018
The first two look like they have Voynich characters x and l. All the others except one look like "o".
The archways are not uncommon. Decorative elements like these were added to some of the medieval thermal spas, but I'm not sure what the "o" shapes might be. I would interpret them possibly as pipes except that the first two look like VMS letters.
RE: green water - Diane - 13-03-2018
Just a general caution about looking and 'ways of seeing'.
When we look at something we don't understand - don't recognise as familiar - the instinctive response is either (i) to hunt for something which does seem familiar, and ignore the rest as details that "don't really matter" OR (ii) to pick one detail we recognise and use that as a basis from which to interpret every other detail.
Neither is a very useful way to provenance imagery, even though these are both universal habits in human beings. (i) is why we can so easily recognise a familiar face in a large crowd and (ii) is how we manage to re-orient ourselves when we're lost in a forest... among other situations.
But when we're talking about how to provenance and read imagery as problematic as the Vms'. these are counter-productive. With (i) if you don't read the whole of the image and all its details, you'll miss important information and likely get the thing quite wrong. (ii) because if you interpret the basic detail wrongly you get all that follows quite wrong, though quite consistent. As example, the habit had always been to interpret a detail on f. 79v as a 'cross' and there was a fully-developed explanation for that detail complete with rays of light from heaven, and saints (supposedly naked) holding crosses and so on. I had to point out, and then brave the storm of protest, when I first said that not only was that detail not a cross, but there was no evidence of Christian culture in the manuscript's imagery, bar a few obviously late additions such as the cross put on one of the 'three crowns'.
It's one thing to offer a context in which a Vms picture seems to fit, culturally and historically, but it's very easy to slip into a state of mind where you're not actually explaining why the pictures are as they are but excusing them for not being exactly what you imagine they should be, and what you firmly believe they *would be* if they better reflected the story you've invented for them and believe very deeply must one day be proved true.
There's no need to explain away the Voynich palette by inventing dramas of scarcity in the atelier. If there's red in the manuscript then pink was a possibility. If there's red and blue, purple-to-black is a possibility. If nothing in the pink-purple-black has been used (allowing for the effects of time), either it can't be explained or it needs a more reasonable explanation than hypothetical shortages of pink pigment.
A better approach - for those who simply cannot accept a non-Latin and non-Mediterranean history for the manuscript's content - would be to test the 'shortage in the atelier' storyline by commissioning from a professional company such as McCrone a full, non-destructive test and description of the whole range of pigments in the Vms. McCrone's long experience might well allow them to identify most of the pigments' materials on sight, and to test the rest without destroying anything.
We have the technology.
RE: green water - -JKP- - 14-03-2018
(13-03-2018, 06:21 PM)Diane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
There's no need to explain away the Voynich palette by inventing dramas of scarcity in the atelier. If there's red in the manuscript then pink was a possibility. If there's red and blue, purple-to-black is a possibility. If nothing in the pink-purple-black has been used (allowing for the effects of time), either it can't be explained or it needs a more reasonable explanation than hypothetical shortages of pink pigment.
...
I've met a surprising number of people who can't mix colors (or who avoid it because they are afraid they will muddy and waste the pigment).
White and red are used very sparingly in the VMS. A true red was scarce in some places (those on better budgets could afford coccineal). I don't know the explanation for there being so little white or for why the red and white were not blended, but a true red was a somewhat costly item, so I think scarcity is sometimes to be taken into consideration.
The greens seemed to have been mixed quite a bit in the plant section, but one painter clearly did it more frequently than the other.
RE: green water - -JKP- - 14-03-2018
I'm not certain these are all "o" shapes. Two have ink above them. One looks like EVA-d and the other like Greek lower-case sigma (or something else):
![[Image: PoolArchHoles.png]](http://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/PoolArchHoles.png)