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+--- Thread: month names (/thread-182.html)
RE: month names - Anton - 04-10-2022
(03-10-2022, 07:53 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If I now take into account that February was the last month of the year, March (Mars in Latin) would probably be the first month.
Thus, the order of the VM calendar would also be correct and January and February would be missing at the end. According to the possibility.
This again brings us to the old discussion of whether the sequence of these diagrams presents a calendar or a Zodiac. If a calendar, then that waives out the tricky question of why the Zodiac begins with Pisces (instead of Aries). Whoever added the month names probably considered it a calendar from the onset. Since he was much closer in mindset to the VMS creator than we are, he may have been correct.
RE: month names - Koen G - 04-10-2022
This is probably the best argument in favor of some calendar aspect. But then again, why did this person need to add the month names if they were already in the know? Maybe they had difficulties remembering which month belonged to which image?
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 04-10-2022
Pisces is right.
This is about the equinox in mid-March. Pisces today from 12 March to 19 April.
The calendar correction around 1582 must be taken into account. The jump of +2 weeks.
So Pisces would be correct from the beginning of March.
This is how I still remember it.
The Sun is in this sign on average between 19 February and 20 March. Due to the migration of the vernal equinox, the sign of Pisces no longer corresponds exactly to the constellation of Pisces. Currently, the Sun is in the constellation of Pisces approximately between 12 March and 19 April.
On 24 February 1582, Gregory XIII decreed in his bull "inter gravissimas" that in a cycle of 400 years there would be three times no shift, at the full centuries. The Pope radically corrects the ten-day time shift that has occurred: "We therefore order and command that ten days be taken out of the month of October of the year 1582, from October 5 to October 14 inclusive."
This also explains why the Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas later. Old calendar.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 04-10-2022
For those who want to know more.
It was not until the 18th century that the Gregorian calendar, which is still valid today, became established throughout the West. The fact that, strictly speaking, it is a few seconds too long can be tolerated in the medium term. Only in 3,333 years will it become a whole day again.
Normal. 28 February.
Leap year every 4 years, 29 February.
So, in 3333 years, it will be 30 February.
Anyone who has a birthday on 30 February has really pulled the wool over their eyes.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 05-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 10:21 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is probably the best argument in favor of some calendar aspect. But then again, why did this person need to add the month names if they were already in the know? Maybe they had difficulties remembering which month belonged to which image?
Which month belongs to Leo as an example?
On average, the Sun is in this sign between 24 July and 23 August. Due to the migration of the vernal equinox, the sign of the zodiac Leo no longer corresponds to the constellation Leo. The Sun is in the constellation Leo approximately between 11 August and 17 September.
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What about the postponement?
And where was it in the Middle Ages around 1400?
RE: month names - Koen G - 06-10-2022
The precession of the equinoxes was rarely a concern though: the actual constellations had long been disconnected from their supposed spot in the Zodiac. So whether we are taking about month emblems, the Zodiac or a horoscope, observation of the constellations is irrelevant.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 06-10-2022
If I subtract the 10 days that were added around 1582, then the date from 24 July - 23 August also moves to 14 July - 13 August.
Since most of the lion is now in July, the inscription also makes sense. Which month does he really mean?
Certainly, from today's point of view, it no longer plays a major role. But what was it like back then.
The frequent calculations of moon and sun phases in various books suggest otherwise.
RE: month names - Anton - 06-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 10:21 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But then again, why did this person need to add the month names if they were already in the know? Maybe they had difficulties remembering which month belonged to which image?
My best guess is that he faced the same task that we face in relation to all other VMS diagrams - that of identification. Imagine you are shown a set of twelve (let's assume there were twelve) diagrams featuring Zodiac signs. You would then start to hypothesize what they could relate to. And, of course, they could relate to many things, since Zodiac signs are used in many concepts. Through some consideration, the author of the marginalia came to the conclusion that the set of diagrams respresents a calendar, and left respective notes for further reference. Likewise, if I were able to identify elements in the series of cosmological diagrams, I would leave notes. Besides, the month notes may have served for ordering of the then unbound pages. Not every person easily remembers the succession of Zodiac signs (I don't), while the succession of months is remembered by everyone.
Regarding the above discussion of the Zodiacal shift. It is true that the point of vernal equinox is currently in the constellation of Pisces. It was in Pisces already by the time of creation of the VMS. However, in the times of Ptolemy from whom the entire Western astrology derives, it was still in Aries. Up to this time, in astronomy, navigation and the like, the point of the vernal equinox is called "the point of Aries" according to the tradition, notwithstanding that it's already in Pisces. Astrology is something tightly bound to tradition, so they still begin the Zodiacal cycle with Aries, notwithstanding that the things change. The said change is due to the phenomenon of precession which is the Earth's axis cyclically changing its direction in space.
However, Vedic astrology allows for the presession. In times of Ptolemy twe two cycles were aligned, but currently they have a shift of a month between each other. In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there is a table showing Western and Vedic Zodiacs, and also the actual progress of the Sun along constellations based on modern internationally recognized constellation boundaries.
RE: month names - Anton - 09-10-2022
Summarizing the discussion above, here's the explanation that looks consistent to me.
The year begins with March, so the series of the diagrams starts with March.
The start of March is under the sign of Pisces (in the Ptolemaic astrological system) - this also applies for the Julian calendar effective in the beginning of 15th century - so the sign of Pisces is depicted.
Similar logic applies for each subsequent month.
The person who added month names discerned this logic (and put down the correct month names).
Later readers of 20th century onwards were confused by the astrological signs and concluded that the series represents the astrological cycle (as opposed to the calendar cycle).
RE: month names - Koen G - 09-10-2022
That sounds reasonable to me.