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+--- Thread: month names (/thread-182.html)
RE: month names - Anton - 02-10-2022
(01-10-2022, 04:57 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I thimk the problem arises from misreading some of the month names, when you look at the september and rest of the year names you see it is septembr + abbr. strole, which should mean septembris [sc. mensis], octembr + abbr. strole, which shoul mean octdembris [sc. mennsis] and so on
I would say September is septe[m]b + some kind of apostrophe, which, by analogy with e.g. Cod. Sang. 678, could well abbreviate "er".
October and November look clearly octe[m]bre and nove[m]bre to my eye. December is poorly legible.
(01-10-2022, 04:57 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All the later added month names in the zodiac are German, with 17r, 116v and the colour instructions this should give us an idea, where the ms. was floating around
17r and the like are, most probably, not far from the VMS creator(s), and quite likely were added by the same person(s), because they imply proficiency in the Voynichese. Month names are more distant in time from the VMS creation, so they indeed might highlight where the VMS was "floating" to.
RE: month names - Anton - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 05:05 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know if it is easy to understand in English, but here is a link to read it.
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Very insightful. It appears that "Erster Herbst" is not a roundabout way of calling September, but actually the old-fashioned German name for this month. (As you already suggested above).
Quote:Der Gebrauch, einzelne Monatsnamen durch vorgesetzte Ordinalzahlen für mehrere Monate gültig zu machen, bestand in ä. Zeit in weiterem Umfang
(From Idiotikon, article for "Herbst")
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 03-10-2022
I would say September is septe[m]b + some kind of apostrophe, which, by analogy with e.g. Cod. Sang. 678, could well abbreviate "er".
October and November look clearly octe[m]bre and nove[m]bre to my eye. December is poorly legible.
I would say it is septembr + abbr., the scribe is using he same r, which looks like a v in mars, the same with the other months
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 03-10-2022
February
'February' comes from Latin (see 'Februarius'). The name is derived from the ancient Roman god Februus.
For the ancient Romans, February was the last month of the year (Februare means 'to cleanse': the festival of cleansing and atonement served to secure oneself mentally and physically from the influence of evil spirits for the new year). February was then placed second in the Roman calendar in 452 BC. Originally February had 29 days, then in 8 AD one day of this was transferred to the month of August. Now February has 28 days in a normal year, with a 29th day added in leap years.
If I now take into account that February was the last month of the year, March (Mars in Latin) would probably be the first month.
Thus, the order of the VM calendar would also be correct and January and February would be missing at the end. According to the possibility.
I now also assume that September to December was only established in the north in the 16th century and that the old names were used until then.
So I am inevitably drawn back south of the Alps, where abrill is also written with a "b" and August "Augst" without a "g". That is, to a German-speaking area.
For the names Mars, September -November but again in a Latin-speaking area.
Which brings us back to page 116 in the VM.
But only as long as it was not a much later addition on his journey to Prague.
RE: month names - Koen G - 03-10-2022
Helmut, should we then assume this person wrote German names for some months and abbreviations of Latin names for others?
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 03-10-2022
Koen,
that is correct, if you keep in mind that the German month names from september to december are identical with the Latin momth names and the other month names more or less identical and that you should likely add mensis in each case
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 03-10-2022
When I read my post, I think I have expressed myself badly. Let's say it this way
mars is LAT and GER
aberil is GER derived from LAT
maii is GER and LAT
ionii is GER and LAT
iulii is GER and LAT
augst is GER derived from LAT
septembr is GER and LAT
octembr is GER made analogous o septembr
novembr is GER and LAT
decembr is GER and LAT
and I think you should add mensis in each case
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 03-10-2022
And since aberil and augst are GER. I think he list of month names was writen by a German language speaker
RE: month names - Koen G - 03-10-2022
Thanks, that makes it clearer. Might a good paraphrase be to say someone was writing the month names in what they considered Latin (presumably because month names were seen as Latin?), but in a way that makes clear they are a German speaker?
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 03-10-2022
Yes I hink that is correct, one should keep in mind tha there is a list of German month names, the list Charlemagne or rather Einhart gave and which is used, but does not prevail, see for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.