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+--- Thread: month names (/thread-182.html)
RE: month names - MichelleL11 - 30-09-2022
(30-09-2022, 03:53 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This does not answer the question of why January and February are omitted though. Maybe they are poor choice for bloodletting for some reason.
Hi, Anton:
I have done extensive searching for just such a time exclusion in manuscripts of the 15th century concerning bloodletting and cautery (another "fun-filled" medieval medical approach) and to date have been unable to find any evidence of this.
This was done, of course, to provide a possible concrete reason for the missing Aquarius-like and Capricorn-like images besides a missing folio and for a hope of some support that the manuscript could be linked to the medical treatment method (perhaps leading to a block decoding method). Although this seemed possibly fruitful, I have been unable to fulfill the first step.
Certainly there were particular times governed by zodiac signs that were associated with bloodletting treatments of particular body parts (e.g., the well-documented Zodiac man diagrams) but there are none that I have seen that "leave out" Aquarius (legs or sometimes ankles, blood vessels) and Capricorn (knees or sometimes knees, bones, skin).
I learned that the chart links body parts to lunar locations in association with the zodiac constellations, rather than some sort of yearly cycle. Further, when "active," (the moon is associated with that zodiac constellation -- which is a matter of a few days a month) treatment of, or cutting into, that body part should be avoided. It's all a little more practical than having to wait months to get your blood-let to help treat your headache. The system is nothing if not physician friendly! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a nice popular summary article if there is interest.
Further, there were time-linked bloodletting schedules adhered to by particular religious orders. For example, Cistercian monks got their blood-let four times a year (even if they were feeling fine) and having mandated rest afterward makes it clear there was at least some perception that it might not have been that good of an idea health wise. The order's height was during the 15th century. But this schedule proved to include one letting in February -- during Aquarius -- so this set up is not the answer. But I keep my eyes out for possibilities like this.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an introductory article.
So your idea is a good one, but checking at the manuscript and academic discussion level has not revealed any good candidates for contradiction of a medical treatment within Aquarius and Capricorn (either lunar or solar) to be an explanation of these symbols being missing from the manuscript. But obviously there are many manuscripts and religious orders out there to be reviewed and it might be I just haven't found the right one . . .
Michelle
RE: month names - Anton - 30-09-2022
(30-09-2022, 04:22 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here it would probably make sense to look for comparative material in the Swiss Idiotikon.
I did that, but if I remember correctly, ther was no success for -re endings.
RE: month names - nablator - 30-09-2022
(30-09-2022, 05:43 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's "In", not "En"The red initials were added later and don't always make sense: the first one in the post by Aga Tentakulus "Iense", should be "Mense".
RE: month names - Anton - 30-09-2022
@Michelle
In the discussion of this kind it's important to clearly distinguish between the solar cycle and the lunar cycle, as well as between months and Zodiacal signs. Where the solar cycle is concerned, Astrology divides the year into twelve roughly equal (in contrast to the actually observed unequal time periods) Zodiacal parts. Since the number of signs is equal to the number of months, there is then the idea to associate Zodiac signs to particular months. Perhaps it's not a good idea since the alignment is not strict (meaning e.g. Aries spans from March to April), but anyway the person who left the extraneous month names evidently had, for some reason, supposed that the intention of the VMS author had been to designate months (and not Zodiac signs per se) with these diagrams, in spite of Zodiac signs being clearly depicted in the centre.
Given this overlay of months (by a later reader) onto signs (by the VMS author), it's easy to fall into the trap of confusing months with signs, while in fact "omitting Aries" is not the same thing at all as "omitting March".
With trying to correlate Cod. Sang. 678 with the VMS, we are falling into this trap. In Cod. Sang. 678, the table does not refer to the Zodiacal cycle at all. It refers to months explicitly. Where the text mentions Zodiacal signs, it relates to lunar mansions, as far as I understand. Which is altogether different thing not related to the ecliptic and the solar cycle. So when the author of that portion of Cod. Sang. 678 omits January and February, he explicitly omits months, not signs (those of Capricorn and Aquarius).
What was meant by the VMS author - were it signs (as depicted) or months (hidden behind the sign emblems) - remains an open question.
ADD: as to the example of referring to good or bad calendar periods (as opposed to the Zodiac signs) in respect of bloodletting, the same Cod. Sang. 678 provides such example, as I initially quoted that above (the three "appropriate" days in the year).
RE: month names - Anton - 30-09-2022
(30-09-2022, 05:57 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(30-09-2022, 05:43 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's "In", not "En"The red initials were added later and don't always make sense: the first one in the post by Aga Tentakulus "Iense", should be "Mense".
Yes, I think in fact it should have been "In mense", so there's a confusion here.
RE: month names - Wladimir D - 01-10-2022
Many years ago, I saw somewhere all the pages of the zodiac in good resolution in multispectral scanning (maybe Marco or Rene will tell you) from which it follows that the ink with which the names of the months are signed have a different chemical composition compared to the ink of the main text. Here's what it looks like on the BAX website.
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Even here you can see it.
RE: month names - Helmut Winkler - 01-10-2022
I thimk the problem arises from misreading some of the month names, when you look at the september and rest of the year names you see it is septembr + abbr. strole, which should mean septembris [sc. mensis], octembr + abbr. strole, which shoul mean octdembris [sc. mennsis] and so on
All the later added month names in the zodiac are German, with 17r, 116v and the colour instructions this should give us an idea, where the ms. was floating around
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 02-10-2022
If it were only a -br ending and not -bre, I would say is already normal again.
In Alemannic, the "e" is swallowed.
Hence the "dr" for "der" and many more. And in Bavarian it is "Dirndl und Spatzl" for "Dirndel und Spatzel".
That's also how we speak "Septembr".
@Anton
I also checked the Idiotikon again and found nothing. But the Augst for August is clearly described.
RE: month names - nablator - 02-10-2022
(02-10-2022, 01:18 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also checked the Idiotikon again and found nothing. But the Augst for August is clearly described.No hits for october, oktober, november, december either.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 02-10-2022
April
Old High German 'abrello', Middle High German 'aberelle' / 'abrille' / 'aprille' and Latin 'Aprilis' (Italian 'aperire') mean 'to open'. The name goes back to the Latin month name 'aprilis' (whose origin, however, is not clear). One interpretation goes back to the word 'aprire' (to open), i.e. the Roman year was opened with April. Possibly the name is also derived from 'aper' (boar) - the Romans sacrificed boars in this month.
At the beginning of Middle High German borrowed instead of Old High German 'Ostarmanod' / 'Ostarmanoth'.
April
Althochdeutsch 'abrello', mittelhochdeutsch 'aberelle' / 'abrille' / 'aprille' und lat. 'Aprilis' (ital. 'aperire') bedeuten 'eröffnen'. Der Name geht zurück auf die lat. Monatsbezeichnung 'aprilis' (deren Herkunft jedoch nicht geklärt ist). Eine Deutung geht auf das Wort 'aprire' (öffnen); d.h., mit dem April wurde das römische Jahr eröffnet. Evtl. ist der Name auch abgeleitet von 'aper' (Eber) - die Römer opferten in diesem Monat jeweils Eber.
Zu Beginn des Mittelhochdeutschen entlehnt statt althochdeutsch 'Ostarmanod' / 'Ostarmanoth'.
I don't know if it is easy to understand in English, but here is a link to read it.
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