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+--- Thread: month names (/thread-182.html)
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 28-06-2020
Maybe you should look at the inks first.
Preferably from different books of the same time. So you will notice that there are small differences in the inks.
Now I look at the inks in the zodiac signs.
October, November and then the month names. Interestingly enough only the brightness changes but not the hue. This hue runs through the whole manuscript. Have the names of the months really been added later ?
If the same book from the same place doesn't even finish it, even if different people are involved using the same ink, how can I believe that everything was added later in the VM?
Now also the German text in the VM is written with the same ink. I don't have to search all over Europe if the VM gives me the specifications.
It is always forgotten to look at the connections.
But I think we had all this before.
RE: month names - -JKP- - 28-06-2020
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]These entries in the Basel register are by different people from different places.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]The Monasteries and the University of Basel attracted many monks, students and professors who were from all over Europe. And Basel is not Bavaria or south Tyrol. It is not south of the Alps, as you mentioned in Post #15. It is on the northern tip of Switzerland, bordering both France and Germany.[/font]
Aga Tentakulus Wrote:Maybe you should look at the inks first.
Preferably from different books of the same time. So you will notice that there are small differences in the inks.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I always look at the inks. I have professional calligraphy experience, so I have always been interested in inks and handwriting styles. And I always look at manuscripts of the same time-period.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You have not shown me any examples of south Tyrol or Bavarian month names that include Averil, Octobre, Novembre, Decembre. I have examples of these and they are not from Bavaria.[/font]
RE: month names - Gioynich - 20-07-2021
Hello everyone! I was curious to see if Romani was a match at all for month names but I couldn't find a list of Romani month names, so I put it together myself and I am sharing it here in case people are interested. The source is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Note that I am not suggesting at all that month names are written in Romani, I was just curious to see how close the names were.
Also note that Romani writing standardization happened in the 20th century.
If you can't see the full image, this should work (from web): right click and then "open image in new tab".
RE: month names - Anton - 27-09-2022
Another occurrence of Germanic Aberelle/Aberil:
"Der erst tag ist ze dem ingenden aberellen an dem subent tage"
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The description says the dialect is Alemannic.
Interestingly, in the next paragraph:
"Der and[er] tage ist in dem subende tag ze dem ussgenden maygen"
Is "maygen" Genitive for "may"? And what do "ingenden" and "ussgenden" mean?
Extremely unfortunately, the third paragraph, speaking presumably of September, calls it in a roundabout way "ersten herbstmanot" (first Autumn month), and does not use the literal form which would be quite of interest.
RE: month names - Anton - 28-09-2022
The preceding passage gives us valuable Zodiac names in the same dialect:
Wid[er]
???
Zwilling
Krepss
Leo
Junkfrow
Waug (or Wang?)
Scorpio
Schutz
Stainbok
Wasserman
Fisch
All of these are self-explanatory, except that I can't read out the Taurus (Farr ?), and also Schutz for Sagittarius looks non-trivial for my untrained eye.
RE: month names - tavie - 28-09-2022
(27-09-2022, 11:34 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another occurrence of Germanic Aberelle/Aberil:
"Der erst tag ist ze dem ingenden aberellen an dem subent tage"
"Der and[er] tage ist in dem subende tag ze dem ussgenden maygen"
Is "maygen" Genitive for "may"? And what do "ingenden" and "ussgenden" mean?
Possibly "ingenden" is the relevant verb form of îngân or îngên (in the dative), i.e. eingehen in more modern German, and ussgenden for ûz,gên, i.e. ausgehen/ausgehenden. April would be "incoming"; May would be on its way out, and so it could be talking about the seventh day of the "incoming" April, i.e. the start of April, and the seventh day of the end or later part of May.
(27-09-2022, 11:34 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Extremely unfortunately, the third paragraph, speaking presumably of September, calls it in a roundabout way "ersten herbstmanot" (first Autumn month), and does not use the literal form which would be quite of interest.
Herbsmonat did used to be a way of describing September, or the other autumn months, so I'm not surprised to see it there. September is mentioned on page 197 in a recognizable way, as is October (and others on page 196) but it may not be the same author.
(27-09-2022, 11:34 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All of these are self-explanatory, except that I can't read out the Taurus (Farr ?)
I'm terrible at reading the handwriting in manuscripts, but I think you are right. We'd expect to see something like Stier for Taurus, but Farre/Varre means bullock in MHG.
RE: month names - Anton - 28-09-2022
(28-09-2022, 02:03 AM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.April would be "incoming"; May would be on its way out, and so it could be talking about the seventh day of the "incoming" April, i.e. the start of April, and the seventh day of the end or later part of May.
Perhaps this means "seventh day counting from the beginning of April" and "seventh day counting from the end of May".
(28-09-2022, 02:03 AM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.September is mentioned on page 197 in a recognizable way, as is October (and others on page 196) but it may not be the same author.
Yes, unfortunately, the hand in question is pages 177-180 only.
RE: month names - Scarecrow - 28-09-2022
Another example of "Maygen" (from 1400-1500 german).
"Also das hinfür järlichs und ewenclich und ains jeglichen jars besunder, nämlich uff des hailigen crützes aubent im Maygen dry oder vier tag vor oder nach ungevärlich, als sich dann sölichs am zit je begeben"
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RE: month names - Bernd - 28-09-2022
(27-09-2022, 11:34 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Der and[er] tage ist in dem subende tag ze dem ussgenden maygen"
Is "maygen" Genitive for "may"? And what do "ingenden" and "ussgenden" mean?
I'm not familiar with Alemannic but I do speak South German and it all looks correct:
"ingenden" = eingehenden = the beginning (plural, e.g. days)
"ussgenden" = ausgehenden = the ending (plural, e.g. days)
So it should mean the 7th day from the end of May.
(28-09-2022, 12:06 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The preceding passage gives us valuable Zodiac names in the same dialect:
Wid[er]
???
Zwilling
Krepss
Leo
Junkfrow
Waug (or Wang?)
Scorpio
Schutz
Stainbok
Wasserman
Fisch
All of these are self-explanatory, except that I can't read out the Taurus (Farr ?), and also Schutz for Sagittarius looks non-trivial for my untrained eye.
Schutz/Schütz = Schütze = shooter, person armed with a shooting weapon
Waug/Wog = Waage = Libra
Farre/Farren = Stier = Taurus
RE: month names - Anton - 28-09-2022
(28-09-2022, 12:26 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So it should mean the 7th day from the end of May.
Would that be June 7th or rather May 25th?