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+--- Thread: month names (/thread-182.html)
RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - -JKP- - 28-06-2020
(28-06-2020, 08:30 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It depends on where and when you look.
It's crazier and more varied than you think.
bavarian is not the same as bavarian.
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Yes, it does, and I have been looking at zodiacs and the month name spellings for more than 10 years now. I have files documenting them. I know where they used the month name spellings that are in the VMS. You can't simply pick out a few of them, they need to all match the same general pattern as the VMS, and they do.
The lists in your link do not show Septembre, Octobre, etc. in Bavaria (or Germany in general) and I have never found this variation in Bavaria, but it does exist elsewhere. The same with aberil/averil. It is consistent with a subset of calendars that use the Septembre spelling.
I've been intending to blog about it for two years now, but I am so horribly behind in blogs, I don't know when I'll get to it.
RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - ReneZ - 28-06-2020
Didn't we already have a thread or two on the month names?
RE: f20v - Did the scribe make a mistake? - -JKP- - 28-06-2020
Yeah, although I really should get that blog finished. It comes pretty close to confirming the origin of the month names and I also figured out something about one of them that is unusual, something I didn't know.
RE: month names - Koen G - 28-06-2020
Moved off topic posts to older thread about month names.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 28-06-2020
No, definitely in the Alemanic language area.
Abril, May, Jony, Jolei, Augst, is typically allemanic.
The endings bri, bre, occur in the southern Bavarian language area. South of the Alps.
South Tyrol, Bavarian and Ladin.
RE: month names - Aga Tentakulus - 28-06-2020
It is not difficult to judge the names of the months.
It is difficult to know in which of the 1000 valleys it occurs exactly. When I find that out, I'll tell you the house number of the Voynich author.
For a better understanding of the problem...
Original text:
Nach dem gültigen Duden ist z.B. Jänner eine Bezeichnung, die nur in Österreich, teilweise Süddeutschland und der Schweiz geläufig ist und verwendet wird (Zitat:
Jänner, der; -(s) (lat.) (österr., seltener auch südd., schweiz. für Januar).
Januar ist hingegen im gesamten deutschsprachigen Raum geläufig, und unterliegt laut Duden keiner Einschränkung in der Verwendung:
Januar, der; -(s), -e (lat.) (erster Monat im Jahr, Eismont, Hartung, Schneemond, Wintermonat; Abk. Jan.); vgl. Jänner.
Sinn der Regelung soll sein, nach Möglichkeit eine im ganzen deutschsprachigen Raum (Deutschland, Schweiz, Österreich, Südtirol etc.) verständliche Sprachregelung zu verwenden.
(Anfang des Textes) In der Verwendung von Monatsnamen sind die im gesamten deutschsprachigen Raum problemlos verständlichen Bezeichnungen: Januar, Februar, März, April, Mai, Juni, Juli, August, September, Oktober, November, Dezember zu verwenden.
Es wird um Verständnis gebeten, dass regionale Veränderungen wie "Jänner", "Feber", "Juno", "Julei" etc. aufgrund ihrer mangelnden Verständlichkeit in einzelnen Regionen nicht verwendet werden sollten. (Ende des Textes)
RE: month names - Searcher - 28-06-2020
I remember, Thomas Sauvaget examined the issue of the month names and found many interesting examples.
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RE: month names - Linda - 28-06-2020
(28-06-2020, 03:16 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'll tell you the house number of the Voynich author.
Isn't it generally accepted that the month names were added later? I thought the handwriting showed it had to be added the next century?
RE: month names - bi3mw - 28-06-2020
(28-06-2020, 04:22 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't it generally accepted that the month names were added later?Yeah, that's what I would assume too.
RE: month names - -JKP- - 28-06-2020
(28-06-2020, 02:38 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, definitely in the Alemanic language area.
Abril, May, Jony, Jolei, Augst, is typically allemanic.
The endings bri, bre, occur in the southern Bavarian language area. South of the Alps.
South Tyrol, Bavarian and Ladin.
You will have to show medieval examples. It's not enough to say it.
I have collected about 500 examples from all over Europe. Most of them are Latin, but some of them are in the vernacular.
(28-06-2020, 04:22 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(28-06-2020, 03:16 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'll tell you the house number of the Voynich author.
Isn't it generally accepted that the month names were added later? I thought the handwriting showed it had to be added the next century?
The handwriting is 15th century or maybe very early 16th century.
The way they are scribbled on top of the drawings makes it look like they were added by someone who didn't have a vested interest in creating the manuscript. For the most part (there are a few exceptions), the scribes tried not to write on top of the drawings.