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+--- Thread: f3r (/thread-1695.html)
f3r - Wladimir D - 23-03-2017
As you can see, these two drawings of the plant are similar. I took them from the article under the link Marco / Rene You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on page 152.
One of the options for identifying this plant is Tussilago.
Translation from the Russian folk name of this plant - "mother and stepmother".
The top of the leaves is smooth and cold to the touch - it's a stepmother.
The underside of the leaves, pubescent and warm is the mother.
The red band at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. MV can mean heat. Dots on a white background, as explained by JKP, can mean - pubescent leaves.
The absence of colors in MV You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is also explainable, Since this plant leaves grow 2-4 weeks after the death of flowers.
RE: f3r - -JKP- - 23-03-2017
I hate to disagree because you are very observant, but I don't think the VMS plant is Tussilago.
The one on the left is probably Hyoscyamus (henbane, also known as Apollinaris). Notice the "pods" on the stalks. Tusilago doesn't have these, it has individual yellow flowers like dandelions at the ends of the stalks.
There are several plants, many in the Amaranthaceae family, that look like the VMS plant on the right:
- some of the Coleus species, one example is Coleus blumei which likes hotter climates, but many of the bicolor and tricolor Coleus live in temperate climates,
- some of the Celosia species, one example is Celosia argentea,
- Salvia viridis, and
- Amaranthus tricolor (Joseph's coat).
RE: f3r - Davidsch - 23-03-2017
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a herbal page with a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
After reading the page quickly, the PDF also says that we can not decisively say which plant is shown there,
so it is not sure which plant it should be, not what the name is or should be.
quote Fuchs:
Auch die Abbildung erinnert an keine der bei Dioskurides genannten Solanaceen. Dargestellt
ist eine Aloe-ähnliche Pflanze mit ganzrandigen, kräftigen, an der Spitze leicht gebogenen
schwertförmigen Blättern und einigen zarten, langgestielten ährigen Blütenständen
(Abb. 3.132-3.133).
310 Cod. vind. 93, fol. 41v: "Nomen herbe Apolinaris. A Grecis dicitur Dicea, alii Strigmon manicon, alii dicunt Dorignion, alii Cecalion vocant, Itali dicunt Apolinaris, Daci herba Baccina. Apollo hanc herbam dicitur invenisse et Asclipio dedisse unde nomen Apollinaris accepit." Ed. und Übersetzung ZOTTER (1980) S. 90/91. - Ed. HOWALD & SIGERIST (1927) S. 61.
unquote
We can check the Cod93. Wiener Codex 93 (Medicina Antiqua 1972, ZOTTER 2001).
RE: f3r - Wladimir D - 23-03-2017
JKP
First of all, I was interested in the similarity of drawings, not identification, which is written in the article.
Your 4 plant proposals are well known to me. I do them every year I plant to decorate the house, including celosia a comb and amaranth bearded (from which in Russia baked bread, before to the spread of wheat and rye).
I have a large collection of garden flowers.
RE: f3r - -JKP- - 24-03-2017
(23-03-2017, 05:20 PM)Wladimir D Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP
First of all, I was interested in the similarity of drawings, not identification, which is written in the article.
Your 4 plant proposals are well known to me. I do them every year I plant to decorate the house, including celosia a comb and amaranth bearded (from which in Russia baked bread, before to the spread of wheat and rye).
I have a large collection of garden flowers.
Me too. :
I love gardening.I don't think the two drawings look similar either morphologically or in the way they are painted:
- The one on the left has basal leaves (leaves in a whorl close to the ground). The one on the right has leaves that start some distance up the stalk and grow up the stalk, not close to the ground.
- The leaves on the left plant point upward, the ones on the right point mostly sideways.
- The one on the left makes a point of showing the "pods" (which is how Apollinaris Henbane is usually drawn in old herbals). The one on the right has no flower stalks.
- The one on the left is shades of green. The one on the right is shades of red, green and light.
- The one on the left has long fairly narrow leaves. The one on the right has elliptical leaves.
- The one on the left has leaves split into two colors. The one on the right has each leaf a solid color, but alternating with other colors (which might be stylistic compared to the real plant, but is different from the way the left plant is drawn).
- The plant on the left has a tap root. The one on the right has branching roots.
- The one on the left has a two-tone "shaded" root. This kind of shading is uncommon in the VMS.
- The way the leaves are painted is different. The painter on the left smooths the paint along the outer edges, the painter on the right leaves little bumpy gaps.
- The paint on the left is heavier and the yellowish shade is stronger than the shade of yellow pale yellow used in many parts of the VMS.
- The drawing on the left has heavier, thicker, darker outlines.
It's true that both plants have a row of dots, but as far as I can tell, the dots are along the leaf vein on the left-hand plant (which is not uncommon), on the VMS they are along the edge of the leaf (which is less common).
That sounds so harsh, but they don't look similar to me.
RE: f3r - Pardis Motiee - 19-05-2021
Euonymus japonicus and less likely Tradescantia zebrina.