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+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: The location of <aiin> and <ain> groups (/thread-1517.html)
RE: The location of <aiin> and <ain> groups - Gavin Güldenpfennig - 02-10-2019
(11-02-2017, 10:09 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting observation. In line initial position and word initial position 't' and 'p' are more more common then 'k' and 'f'.
k t p f
[font=Courier New][font=Courier New]line initial 118 405 [/font][font=Courier New] [/font][font=Courier New]385 [/font][font=Courier New] [/font][font=Courier New]41[/font][/font]
k t p f
word start 1158 1065 545 124
word medial+final 9778 5898 1085 381
total 10936 6963 1630 505
I don´t know if my transcription is right, but k in my substitution cipher is used for five (!) different, but related sounds. These are: m, n, ñ, k and g. They are all nasals or velar sounds. ckh is used as a fricative for "ch" and a "ğ" - sound. kch is used for the palatal plosive sound "tj" ("c").
I don´t know why that is how it is, but I suspect that their was a nasal- velar- collapse in the Voynichese.
What it ever meant, it explains the high number of EVA- k´s in comparison to the other gallow letters, you´ve found with your analysis.
RE: The location of <aiin> and <ain> groups - Common_Man - 03-10-2019
/m/ sound i believe is articulated in the lips, so it is "bilabial" nasal sound, and you should compare the bialbial part with the velar part of /k/ and /g/.
Also /n/ sound is articulated at the "alveolar" region, so that being resonated through the nasal chamber doesnt mean it should be taken as just a "nasal" sound, but rather as a "alveolar" nasal sound.
So it seems that the term "nasal-valar" collapse doesn't make sense, and what you should've been going for was a "labio-alveolar-velar" collapse, which makes even lesser sense..
There are voiced nasal plosive sound variant for every place of articulation (I know this as I can speak 2 indian languages, in our alphabet we have series of consonats based on places of articulation starting from velar, through palatal, pre alveolar, alveolar/dental, and labial, I maybe wrong here though, and all the series have nasal variants).
But I did like the idea of alveo palatal collapse pit forward by Derek at the Stephen Bax forum..
RE: The location of <aiin> and <ain> groups - Davidsch - 03-10-2019
You can make any text observation and attach any conclusion to it.
It is the total system of text fragments and their positions that is difficult to solve.