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+--- Thread: The Impossibility of Double Gallows (/thread-129.html)
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - crezac - 31-01-2016
Hypothetically assume the script encodes English words since my vocabulary is largest in English. Further assume that the gallows characters are combinations of an L and a vowel or an I and a vowel or consonant. In effect the gallows character means I don't have to dot my i and if I make an upstroke I can get back to the written line while writing the next character. While words like lilacs and lilies aren't common in English they would generate double gallows. Just because they aren't statistically significant doesn't make an anomaly an error.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Davidsch - 07-03-2016
i agree the gallows are interesting. Also, the exceptions always must remain in scope, because they are always part of the solution. If they are sounds and you must write them down, how would you note them yourself?
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Koen G - 07-03-2016
In my current view, gallows are roughly equivalent to upper case characters, capitals. They have equivalents in lower case, usually in bench ligatures. I haven't analyzed any benched gallow yet, but I'd think they are not separate sounds, just ligatures.
Basically, Voynichese as I see it has a very limited chatacter set. Most characters have an ornate and a non ornate version.
Why only some glyphs got capital varieties, I don't know. I can't think of any good reason...
This would explain why they don't appear together though.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - crezac - 09-03-2016
How do you account for gallows characters where the top part extends over several glyphs so that instead of being similar to a capital P or a capital H (closest equivalents on my keyboard) you get a capital P with the curve at the top pulled to the right or a capital H where the first leg of the character is in the expected position but the second leg comes down in the middle of the word. It would seem that whatever's happening there doesn't have a direct correspondence to capitalization. Can you relate it to any other meme for language representation?
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Koen G - 09-03-2016
These are probably just ways to make the "capital" more ornate. Compare it to medieval miniatures. There are actually pretty good parallels for that in other manuscripts, I've seen them posted somewhere before. Probably someone here can repost them.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Anton - 10-03-2016
(09-03-2016, 01:34 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These are probably just ways to make the "capital" more ornate. Compare it to medieval miniatures. There are actually pretty good parallels for that in other manuscripts, I've seen them posted somewhere before. Probably someone here can repost them.
That's less likely, which is best illustrated with the Recipe section, where the line spacings are very small and the extended gallows loop (I call this "gallows coverage", see here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) has to fit into such little space that it is strange from the perspective of ornation.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - crezac - 12-03-2016
(09-03-2016, 01:34 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These are probably just ways to make the "capital" more ornate. Compare it to medieval miniatures. There are actually pretty good parallels for that in other manuscripts, I've seen them posted somewhere before. Probably someone here can repost them.
I think they probably aren't. I would compare it to a medieval miniature if I thought it were a fair or meaningful comparison. Is it? "Ornate" gallows seem to extend over or span a specific set of glyphs which you would have me believe is random. Which would mean the decision about when to get fancy with the gallows characters is random and that even how you will get fancy is arbitrary. Occam's Razor would work for that scenario only if the text were random. And if it's random anyway what is there to get fancy about?
Also, could you clarify what you mean by the "capital" in your initial statement? I'm not sure I have a definition for that word that makes sense in that context.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Koen G - 12-03-2016
To be honest, I'm not sure yet myself. Certain elements in my label readings point to the fact that at least the gallows "K" and "T" are a more ornate way to express sounds that are also expressed in bench ligatures. I say capitals because upper case letters is the closest resemblance we have to what I envision. They are used word-initially (ignoring prefixes) or in a number of other scenarios, for example to draw attention to a certain sound. We could also use an upper case letter there, like "it's iMpatient, not iNpatient." I haven't read nearly enough labels yet to be sure about this though.
But if this is true, it may not be totally unlikely that the gallows you describe are just extra ornate versions. But these don't appear in the labels I'm studying, so that's pure speculation.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - farmerjohn - 26-10-2016
Glyph y, when in the middle of the word often (roughly 65%) occurs near gallow. Having the fact that gallows almost never follow each other we can draw simple conclusion that y is "lower case" of some gallow.
RE: The Impossibility of Double Gallows - Anton - 26-10-2016
How is this conclusion reached?
