+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Analysis of the text (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-41.html)
+--- Thread: [otaiin] and f107r (/thread-1123.html)
Pages:
1
2
[otaiin] and f107r - Emma May Smith - 20-11-2016
I'm doing some research on Quire 20, and while the results may take a while, I thought I would share an interesting observation.
On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are six occurrences of otaiin. Five of those are on the first line of a recipe, and all six either the third or second to last word in the line. Five of the lines end with m.
I don't know what this pattern is, but it is worth reporting to see if anybody has any insight.
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Davidsch - 20-11-2016
>>Five of the lines end with m.
...as i wrote before the m is an abbrev. that stands for anything that makes a word finim
and although I can not present any proof, just take the lines and the words that end with it
and try to see if it can be some anytm else than th[font=Eva]m[/font]
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Emma May Smith - 21-11-2016
Were m an abbreviation in the way you propose, it would be found after a much wider set of characters. As it is, m appears after a, o, or i over 95% of the time.
Besides, this thread isn't an argument about m.
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Davidsch - 21-11-2016
ok, i will respect your wish and will not pollute the thread with m-information.
otaiin
total occurr. : 250
with prefixes: 96 (79 times qotaiin, and 9 time chotaiin)
with suffixes: 0
on pages: (sorry for the strange sorting of Excel):
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Torsten - 21-11-2016
@Emma: Indeed, your observation is correct. It is very unlikely that this pattern happens by coincidence:
f107r.P.1 otaiin.ytar
f107r.P.6 otaiin.am
f107r.P.16 otaiin.am
f107r.P.34 (o)kaiin.otaiin.otar
f107r.P.45 kaiin.otaiin.otar(am)
f107r.P.48 otaiin.ytaiin.om
It is also possible to add three more lines to your pattern:
f107r.P.1 otaiin.ytar
f107r.P.6 otaiin.am
(f107r.P.11 okaiin.otaram)
f107r.P.16 otaiin.am
f107r.P.34 okaiin. otaiin.otar
(f107r.P.43 otal.taiin.chotaiin.aram)
f107r.P.45 otal.kaiin. otaiin.otaram
(f107r.P.46 taiin. qokaiin.otal)
f107r.P.48 otaiin. ytaiin.om
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - stellar - 21-11-2016
(20-11-2016, 11:20 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm doing some research on Quire 20, and while the results may take a while, I thought I would share an interesting observation.
On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are six occurrences of otaiin. Five of those are on the first line of a recipe, and all six either the third or second to last word in the line. Five of the lines end with m.
I don't know what this pattern is, but it is worth reporting to see if anybody has any insight.
Dear Emma,
I really like your website and I was reading about vowels today. Thankyou!
This is a great find! I have often thought that these recipes may not be recipes. I actually think these star lists are Solomon's proverbs in Welsh. I believe you hit Chapter 10 as there are ten references to wicked in Welsh, 4 words listed as, "WRYGIOG", which adds to a 5 and six occurrences of, "DRYGIOG", and this word adds to 4, but these maybe referenced in an older Welsh Bible. These words are wicked in Welsh. My only problem is that the ten words listed in the 1588 Welsh Bible for Solomon Chapter X is that the word is actually Drygionus for wicked! But there is 10 of them and that word adds to a 6.
Old bibles would spell words differently and perhaps if we could find an online bible in Welsh older than 1588 we might have some luck in translation. I could also count the vords in 107r and see if its close to the same amount of words in chapter 10 of the Welsh Bible of 1588.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has roughly 537 vords give or take more.
The English King James has 529 words in chapter X of Solomon's Proverbs.
A modern Welsh Bible has in the picture below, 548 words for Chapter X of Solomon's proverbs.
Chapter 10 for Solomon's proverbs has roughly about 475 words in this bible link below, which is the 1588 Welsh Bible.
The average for the two Bibles is a word count of 511.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
4otaiin is listed 4 times and it = 5 in numerology, along with 6 occurrences of otaiin. otaiin = 4
![[Image: Cxwc0WKVQAA00r5.jpg:large]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxwc0WKVQAA00r5.jpg:large)
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - davidjackson - 21-11-2016
@Davidsch - please use the
PHP Code:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
tags when posting long lists like that, it saves us having to scroll down.
@stellar, @Davidsch - please keep discussion on topic about [otaiin] and f107r. Thank you.
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Davidsch - 21-11-2016
I already wrote:
Quote:ok, i will respect your wish and will not pollute the thread with m-information.
Why it is necessary to write anything on that again is annoying. I 'm not a child and could you please avoid using the name Stellar and my name in the same line.
thank you.
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Torsten - 21-11-2016
@Emma
I have checked all other instances of 'otaiin' for similar patterns. Only on page f107r 'otaiin' is used multiple times as the third or second to last word in paragraph initial lines. On the other hand similarities for paragraph initial lines are not uncommon for the VMS (see Timm 2014 p. 30f). Another interesting features for paragraph initial lines is that the words in this lines are on average longer then the words in the second line (see Timm 2014 p. 28).
For 'otaiin' it is possible to found more sequences which occur near to each other and share similarities:
f86v3.P2.2 otaiin.yk!aiin
f86v3.P2.4 otaiin.ytaiin
f104r.P.27 qokaiin.(q)otaiin
f104r.P.34 qokaiin. otaiin
f104r.P.44 qoko!iin. otaiin
f104r.P.45 qokaiin. otaiin
f104v.P.2 otaiin.ydaiin
f104v.P.3 (q)otaiin.odaiin
f104v.P.9 otaiin.qokeedy.(q)ok!aiin
f104v.P.10 (q)ok!aiin.qoteedy. otaiin
f105v.P.24 ok!aiin.otar
f105v.P.26 otaiin.otar
f105v.P.30 otaiin.ota(i)r
f113r.P.35 okchedy.qotaiin.otar
f113v.P.7 op!chedy.qotaiin.otar
RE: [otaiin] and f107r - Anton - 21-11-2016
(21-11-2016, 01:45 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why it is necessary to write anything on that again is annoying. I 'm not a child and could you please avoid using the name Stellar and my name in the same line.
No flaming please.