(07-07-2025, 09:34 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the "mutation" part of the SCM would require generating several coin tosses, with non-uniform probabilities, at each word.  And these probabilities would have to be finely tuned in order to generate the proper Zipf plot and other "natural" properties. 

(07-07-2025, 09:34 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In their argument T&T implicitly or explicitly assume that Prob(A|not H) is practically zero; that is, they assume that a manuscript that is not a hoax cannot have the "context-dependent repetitions" that they observed -- because they did not observe them in a few other non-hoax books that they analyzed.  Conversely they claim that Prob(A|H) is much higher, because the hypothetical forger may well have generated the VMS using a method, like the SCM,  that accidentally created such repetitions.

And indeed, if Prob(A|H)  is much greater than prob(A|not H), then Bayes's formula gives Prob(H|A) ≈ 1 --- no matter what the prior P(H) is.

However, my Prob(A|not H) is actually quite high.  If the nature of the text is what the illustrations suggest (herbal, pharmacopoeia, list of diseases, etc.), then I do expect that it will have a lot more "context-dependent repetitions" than a novel or chronicle.  

(07-07-2025, 10:04 AM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(07-07-2025, 09:34 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the "mutation" part of the SCM would require generating several coin tosses, with non-uniform probabilities, at each word.  And these probabilities would have to be finely tuned in order to generate the proper Zipf plot and other "natural" properties. 

Well said, I wholly agree with this.

(07-07-2025, 12:24 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is it possible to download the text created using Torsten's method? I seem to recall seeing some of it somewhere, and recall that there is some computer program for generating this. If it were possible to have ~24,000 words then it would be possible to get a statistical measure of its closeness to the language B text.

(07-07-2025, 12:05 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some years ago I set up two texts that should be useful as comparison texts for the Voynich MS, in the frame of this analysis. 

• Vietnamese, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Random Vietnamese by a variant of Gordon Rrugg's table and template method.
    
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Random Vietnamese by a character Markov chain or order 3.
    
• Voynichese, EVA encoding
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Random Voynichese generated manually by Gordon Rrugg.
    
  • You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Random Voynichese generated automatically by Gordon Rugg.
    

• The Seed of this Wormwood is that which usually Women give their Children for the Worms: Of all Wormwoods that grow here, this is the weakest; I but Doctors commend it, and Apothecaries sell it, the one must keep his Credit, and the other get Money, and that's the key of the work. The Herb is good for somthing, because God made nothing in vain; Will you give me leave to weigh things in the Ballance of Reason; Then thus, The Seeds of the common Wormwood are far more prevalent than the Seed of this, to expell Worms in Children, or People of ripe age: Of both, some are weak, some are strong. The Seeds of the common Wormwood are far more prevalent than the Seed of this, to expell Worms in Children, or People of ripe age: Of both, some are weak, some are strong. The Seriphian Wormseed is the weakest, & happily may prove to be fittest for weakest Bodies (for it is weak enough in all conscience) Let such as are strong take the common Wormseed, for the other will do but little good. Again, neer the Sea many people live, and Seriphium grows neer them, and therfore is more fitting for their Bodies because nourished by the same Air; and this I had from Dr° Reason. In whose Body Dr° Reason dwels not, dwels Dr° Madness, and he brings in his Brethren, Dr° Ignorance, Dr° Folly, and Dr° Sickness, and these together make way for Dr° Death, and the latter end of that man is worse than the beginning. Pride was the cause of Adam's Fall, Pride begate a Daughter, I do not know the Father of it unless the Divil, but she christned it, and call'd it Appetite, and sent her Daughter to tast these Wormwoods, who finding this the least bitter, made the sqeamish Wench extol it to the Skies, though the Vertues of it never reached to the middle Region of the Air. Its due praise is this; It is weakest, therefore fitter for weak Bodies, and fitter for those Bodies that dwel neer it than those that live far from it: my reason, is The Sea (as those that live far from it know when they comt neer it) casteth not such a smel as the Land doth: The tender Mercies of God being over all his Works, hath by his eternal Providence planted Seriphium by the Sea side, as a fit Medicine for the Bodies of those that live neer it. Lastly, It is known to all that know any thing in the Course of Nature, That the Liver delights in sweet things; if so, it abhors bitter, then if your Liver be weak, it is none of the wisest courses to plague it with an Enemy: if the Liver be weak a Consumption follows; Would you know the Reason? 'tis this, A mans Flesh is repaired by Blood, by a third concoction which transmutes Blood into Flesh ('tis well I said «Conction» for if I had said «Boyling» every Cook would have understood me.) The Liver makes Blood, and if it be weakned that it makes not enough the Flesh wasteth, and why must Flesh alwaies be renewed? Because the eternal God when he made the Creation, made one part of it in continual dependency upon another: And why did he so? Because Himself is only Permanent, to reach us, That we should not fix our affections upon what is transitory, but upon what endures for ever. The result of all is this, If the Liver be weak and cannot make Blood enonough (I would have said «Sanguifie» if I had written only to Schollers) The Seriphian which is the weakest of Wormwoods is better than the best. I have been Critical enough, if not too much.
  
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• Having gathered your Herb you would preserve the Juyce of, when it is very dry (for otherwise your Juyce will not be worth a Button) bruise it very wel in a stone Mortar with a wooden Pestle, then having put it into a Canvas Bag (the Herb I mean, not the Mortar for that will yield but little Juyce) press it hard in a press, then take the Juyce and clarifie it.