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+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. (/thread-5950.html)
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - JoJo_Jost - 27-07-2026
@ Age In my opinion, there are too many assumptions about “u.” The three p look so similar, and it also makes sense as alliteration: p p p
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - Koen G - 27-07-2026
(27-07-2026, 02:29 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.‘umen’ is a common Alemannic word.
So far, the only attestation I can find is 19thC Allemanic: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"iez ist ir mir um en Neuthaler nit feil"
"now is he (to) me for a Neuthaler not for sale"
Where the Kitzbuhel attestation has "umb ain [coin type]", this 19thC Allemanic verse has "um en [coin type]".
That's monophthongization (or lack of diphthongization) and the simplification of word-final -mb clusters.I assume this is more likely to happen in some dialects than others. Maybe even Low German or Central dialects (Franconian?)
(I wouldn't pay attention to this if it weren't for the fact that our only attestation of ingredient "poxleber" is followed by "umb ain").
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - Aga Tentakulus - 27-07-2026
I’ve taken another look at the ‘p’ from various angles – the scans that Lisa provided.
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I couldn’t see any sign of a ‘p’ anywhere, even though the writing shows through from the other side. Why can’t I see the stem of the ‘p’?
Question: where did you get your scan from?
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - nablator - 27-07-2026
(27-07-2026, 07:49 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I’ve taken another look at the ‘p’ from various angles – the scans that Lisa provided.
This is from the "Processed Images" folder. If you do your own processing (just adjust levels) on the Raw TIFFs the faint tails appear.
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - Aga Tentakulus - 27-07-2026
@Koen
Imagine that ‘umen’ is just a prefix.
‘umen-xxxxxx’.
Then it gets really tricky.
umenlupfen
RE: The UV image - Jorge_Stolfi - 28-07-2026
(24-07-2026, 10:01 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These diagonal strokes [on the +] and serifs are not exceptional and certainly don't need an imaginary Voynichese layer to explain them. There are many similar examples in this thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I don't think any of those examples is comparable to the diagonal strokes on those two crosses on f116v.
All but one are serifs created when the pen landed at the top of the vertical stroke, which was then drawn from the top down. The serifs themselves were traced from SW to NE.
The exception is the first one on the bottom row, where it seems that the vertical stroke was traced from top to bottom, then retraced from bottom up, without lifting the pen, until just above the crossing point, then briefly lifted and dropped again while moving to the start of the horizontal stroke.
But I will not dispute this further until we get higher-resolution images.
All the best, --stolfi
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - Aga Tentakulus - 28-07-2026
@Koen
I’ve had another look at the examples from the dictionary (Schweizerisches Idiotikon).
In everyday usage, I would write ‘umenlupfen’ as two separate words, ‘umen lupfen’, as it means ‘to lift or carry about’.
Most words beginning with ‘umen’ are independent words. ‘umen luege’ means ‘to look around’. This is the case with most of the examples.
Ich würde im täglichen gebrauch "umenlupfen" als zwei wörter schreiben, "umen lupfen", den es bedeutet "umher heben/tragen".
Die meisten Wörter nach "umen" sind eigenständige Wörter. "umen luege" umher schauen" Das ist bei den meisten Beispielen so.
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - Aga Tentakulus - 28-07-2026
Thanks, Nablator
But all I get is a black screen. For some reason, it’s not working for me. Now I’m just as clueless as before.
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - JoJo_Jost - 28-07-2026
u need a special Viewer for this Raw Pictures
(Du brauchst einen speziellen Viewer für die Raw Bilder)
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and then increase the exposure
(und dann die Belichtung hochziehen
)
RE: [split] Big f116v spillover thread. - JoJo_Jost - 28-07-2026
Regarding “umen”
You really have to decide: either the “u” in “umen” is a “u” or the ‘u’ in “putrifer” (red border)
And the “e” in “umen” maybe isn’t an “e”—you just have to compare it to the “e” in “fer.”
For all the “e”s in the entire marginal note, the right downward movement in the top of the “e” is inside the lower loop; only for this “e” is it clearly to the right of the very small loop....
larger version here