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+--- Thread: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? (/thread-4955.html)
RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - bi3mw - 27-12-2025
(27-12-2025, 09:39 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whatever the deliberate use of colors means (not forgetting yellow and red), it is not simply decoration but, as I said, a pictorial narrative.
(27-12-2025, 10:54 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But we should not expect that the colors will help us solve the riddle. I believe they are only noise, that adds to the confusion..
Okay, Jorge, I think we've clearly outlined the different points of view.
RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - Aga Tentakulus - 11-02-2026
@Lisa
I found something interesting here.
Writing on unpolished parchment. I think the left (black) is written in lead, the right in red. I don't think the red is ink either.
It looks the same as the flower border on f55r.
Do you have any idea what kind of writing material this is?
RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - Searcher - 11-02-2026
I just want to refresh (from my post in the thread "Colors"):
Comparison of the pages of the same bifolio shows that the author did the basic coloring most likely before bifolios were sewn into quires, since most of the plants pairs have the same colors and shades. Apparently (not surprisingly), the author prepared paints for a particular volume of work, depending on circumstances.
Examples of plant pairs from the same side of the same bifolio:
Currier A
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Currier B
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3. Imprints on the next pages in the current order - is most often blue paint, rarely – red, also rarely - green. In one case (f55r) – the imprint of green dye presents in the form of darkened areas on the opposite page ( f54v ), it is not green, it is likely appeared with the passage of time because of dampness, some particles gradually leaked into parchment. The other example is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the Sagittarius diagram). There are spots which look like imprints of the green dye, but where they are - from the offcut folio with diagrams of Capricorn or Aquarius, from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with the green pools, or from quite another bifolio, it is unclear for now.
RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - Aga Tentakulus - 15-02-2026
Perhaps also good to know.
For about 5 years now, it has also been possible to determine when a colour was applied.
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RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - Jorge_Stolfi - 15-02-2026
(15-02-2026, 09:24 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For about 5 years now, it has also been possible to determine when a colour was applied.
Indeed, good to know. Basically they do C14 dating on the binder used to hold the (inorganic) pigment particles to the substrate, using less than a milligram of paint.
But they are working with oil paintings, where the paint layer is rather thick. I wonder if they could do anything with the VMS paints, that seem to be much thinner and probably have less binder in their formulas. They would have to scrape quite a bit of paint to get the needed amount of binder (10 micrograms) after chemical separation.
Being thinner, the paint layer is also probably more prone to contamination from dirt, mold, and the vellum.
But maybe one day...
All the best, --stolfi
RE: What's the evidence that the colors were added later? - Aga Tentakulus - 15-02-2026
I also think that the thickness of the paint is the biggest hurdle between the painting and the book.