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+--- Thread: Cannons versus Pipes (/thread-2959.html)
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - R. Sale - 30-01-2026
IMHO... You see that colorful, circular band in the image just under "Rosenwald5:" in Post #66? Those are visual representations of the four classical elements: earth, air, fire, and water. Now, go back to the zodiac and see that the monthly signs have been similarly arranged according to their dominant element.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - DG97EEB - 30-01-2026
(30-01-2026, 08:14 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.IMHO... You see that colorful, circular band in the image just under "Rosenwald5:" in Post #66? Those are visual representations of the four classical elements: earth, air, fire, and water. Now, go back to the zodiac and see that the monthly signs have been similarly arranged according to their dominant element.I asked Gemini whether it found anything strange about this image and his was the response. Shows how good it can bem
"The image appears to be a medieval or early Renaissance cosmological diagram, likely from a manuscript. While it follows the traditional "rota" (wheel) format, there are several striking anomalies and specific details that stand out.
1. Systematic Text-to-Image Mismatch
The most unusual feature of this diagram is that the written labels for the Zodiac signs do not match the illustrations directly adjacent to them. In standard astrological diagrams, the text identifies the image. Here, they are significantly offset or completely mismatched:
* Cancer/Leo: The labels "Cancer" and "Leo" (at the top) are placed next to illustrations of Pisces (fish).
* Virgo: The label "Virgo" is placed next to an illustration of Aries (the ram).
* Libra: The label "Libra" is placed next to Taurus (the bull).
* Aries: The label "Aries" (on the left) is placed next to the illustration of Libra (the scales).
* Gemini: The label "Gemini" is placed next to the illustration of Cancer (the crab).
This suggests either a significant error by the scribe/illustrator or a specific symbolic layout where the text refers to a different layer of meaning (such as the position of the sun during those months) rather than the constellations themselves.
2. Integration of Anemology (Winds) and Astrology
The inner circle contains the names of the classical winds in Latin, rather than further astronomical data. This combines two different medieval sciences:
* Zephyrus: The West wind.
* Auster: The South wind.
* Eurus: The East wind.
* Boreas/Septentrio (implied): The North wind.
It is unusual to see the winds mapped so directly against the Zodiac in this specific circular orientation, as they are usually depicted in a separate "Wind Rose."
3. Solar Orientation Labels
The four diagonal axes are labeled with specific solar events rather than simple cardinal directions:
* Oriens estualis: Summer Sunrise (East).
* Occidens estualis: Summer Sunset (West).
* Oriens hyemalis: Winter Sunrise (East).
* Occidens hyemalis: Winter Sunset (West).
This indicates the diagram is specifically designed to show the solstitial points, tracking how the sun's position on the horizon changes between summer and winter.
4. Artistic Style and Color Palette
The "bleeding" or "flame" effect (red ink washes) behind the animals on the right side of the circle is quite distinct. While medieval manuscripts often used red for emphasis (rubrication), the way it is applied here as a background texture for only one quadrant of the circle is a unique stylistic choice, possibly representing the "hot" or "fiery" nature of those specific signs or winds.
"
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - DG97EEB - 30-01-2026
(30-01-2026, 08:14 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.IMHO... You see that colorful, circular band in the image just under "Rosenwald5:" in Post #66? Those are visual representations of the four classical elements: earth, air, fire, and water. Now, go back to the zodiac and see that the monthly signs have been similarly arranged according to their dominant element.
This is one of my favourites... from a 14th century Dutch manuscript with a crocodile zodiac...
which also happens to contain something that looks like an armadillo (I'm sure it has been discussed lots here)
And a very Voynichese zodiac
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Bernd - 31-01-2026
Looks more like an aardvark than an armadillo
Kriegsbuch - UER MS.B 26
Eyb, Ludwig von, der Jüngere (1450-1521)
[Franken], 1500
also contains Bellifortis by Kyeser but also a lot of original illustrations
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Can someone tell me what the diagrams are about? I'm not saying this book is a source for the VM, but that books with pipes, cannons, zodiacs and circular diagrams existed.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Koen G - 31-01-2026
The first picture with all the pipes sticking out is quite remarkable. I never quite realized how unusually pipe-heavy the VM is.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Aga Tentakulus - 31-01-2026
At the top right, next to the cross, it says,
‘The ABCs of the elements.’
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Bernd - 31-01-2026
I assume it shows a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a common tactic in the Hussite wars (1419-34). Note that one of the main figures (and causes) of these wars was Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund of Luxembourg, who was well acquainted with - Taccola.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - obelus - 01-02-2026
(31-01-2026, 08:41 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can someone tell me what the diagrams are about?Image seven looks like an attempt to illustrate the perpetual-motion concept known as an You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Leonardo da Vinci was certainly not the first to propose it, but the rolling-ball variant is nowadays associated with his notebook sketches. This version is from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
How reckless not to have included a braking mechanism!
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - DG97EEB - 01-02-2026
(31-01-2026, 09:30 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The first picture with all the pipes sticking out is quite remarkable. I never quite realized how unusually pipe-heavy the VM is.
Morning All,
Just found this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"A collection of recipes, in Latin, written by two hands, probably in North East Italy, mid 15th century. The collection follows the usual head to toe arrangement in medieval medical manuals and, in particular, in the Liber nonus ad Almansorem, a treatise on the medical therapy of diseases written by the Persian physician Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi (865-925 or 933), known in the West as Rhazes or Rhasis. Additional recipes added at the end of the volume by contemporary hands include excerpts from the Antidotarium of the Paduan physician Bartolomeo da Montagnana (c. 1380-before Feb. 1452)."
So far , so interesting... And then at the bottom of one page, I see something vaguely pipe like..and it's only on this one page, so it doesn't look like a section marker..
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Koen G - 01-02-2026
(31-01-2026, 10:07 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I assume it shows a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a common tactic in the Hussite wars (1419-34). Note that one of the main figures (and causes) of these wars was Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund of Luxembourg, who was well acquainted with - Taccola.
It's like a scene from a Wild West cartoon slipped into a manuscript.