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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Searcher - 21-04-2016
(21-04-2016, 02:42 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher - your first links don't work, they refer to some kind of webmail where one has to login.
Here's an interesting paper about the substance: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Either way, together with the "achiton", this would be the second mention of a protective substance that was applied to materials. Very interesting.
So this means that both substances were associated with:
- Protective coating AND
- Copper plates
It is strange about links, but I'll try to repost them:
1. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
2. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
3. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
4.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
5. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. !!!
I hope they are working.
I'll keep in mind your conclusions.
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-04-2016
(21-04-2016, 01:18 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[font=Arial]Regarding the two enciphered words on 116v: they are often transcribed as [font=Eva]oror sheey. Looking at them with the Voyager, I read them as aror sheey.[/font][/font]
There are only 5 instances of [font=Eva]oror in the MS, based on the voynichese site.[/font]
There are 6 instances of [font=Eva]aror.[/font]
There are 144 matches for [font=Eva]sheey[/font]
If we look for a full match of either [font=Eva]oror sheey or aror sheey there are none in the whole MS.[/font]
There are four almost matches:
on 84v there is [font=Eva]oror tcheey[/font]
on 79v we find [font=Eva]aror [font=Eva]dshey[/font][/font]
[font=Arial]also on 79v is another close call: arorl sheey [/font]
and finally on 84r: [font=Eva]aror shedy[/font]
I find it interesting that the overwhelming majority of the occurrence of any of these words happens in the "balneo" and "recipes" sections.
I understand that the voynichese site is missing some words, namely those on the nine rosette foldout, where there may be more occurrences/ a better match?
I agree that it is clearly aror, and not oror. I made some speculative considerations about this in my You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Section 4). Actually, aror sheey occurs also in f104r. Job's VQP tracks it as a single word "arorsheey" in this instance.
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-04-2016
What may be the most promising approach is to find an early Greek language copy of those Alexander stories (does any remain in existence?) and to check whether something looking like "oladabas" is mentioned nearby "anchiton" there.
"ola" is a valid Greek word meaning "all", "whole", and it also is used as part of composite words. Although the Groves dictionary does not mention "ola" per se, rather listing "olos" in that meaning (which suggests that "ola" in its standalone form may be a recent development or a word form), it provides many composites, like e.g. "olokarpoma" ("a whole burnt offering"), and many others.
But "dabas" (or is it "sabas"?) is a perfect riddle.
Taken together, "anchiton oladabas" looks like "anchiton all-xxx", where "xxx" should be substituted with the meaning of "dabas". Like "allmighty", "all-seeing", maybe "all-protecting" (?), and that sort of thing.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-04-2016
All-protecting would be very suitable, and look nice as the beginning of a charm. Something to look into indeed.
I've been thinking about the possible practical meaning of what we have so far. Couldn't it relate to a wooden "case" or binding the book was in?
In that case, there are still two possible courses of interpretation:
Symbolical:
- The mythical powers of anchiton are invoked to protect the material from fire and damage.
- The waterproofing powers of Miltos , known possibly from Homer or from ancient practices, are invoked as protection against water.
In this case it seems clear that we are dealing with a "spell" or charm. It seems appropriate to place this near the cover of the book, where protection is most needed.
Literal:
- A wooden casing should be made for this book, using "anchiton" wood, which is relatively resistant to fire and damage.
- The case should be coated with "miltos", which could be some kind of resin mixed with this ochre, to waterproof it and protect against woodworms.
In this case, this is a list of notes for the artisan who would fashion the wooden cover. The + signs could just be there to separate the items.
RE: 116v - Anton - 21-04-2016
I consider "miltos" unlikely. The word is not easy to interpret, but "miltos" would require four vertical strokes (three for "m" and one for
"i"), while here we have five.
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-04-2016
What about mihi ton? Just for fun, I took the small spaces in the words to be actual spaces, and entered "mihi ton ola dabas" to translate and the result is
"pardon me a ton ola"
If I change all o's into a's, it says "I only gave wing"
RE: 116v - Searcher - 21-04-2016
Hm, maybe, "O You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."?!
RE: 116v - Koen G - 21-04-2016
(21-04-2016, 07:53 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hm, maybe, "O You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."?!
Not impossible, but that seems very obscure.
Could "ola" or "o la" be seen as some sort of pronoun in Latin or a vernacular?
The more I think about the "mihi" though, the more it makes sense there, as the dative form of "ego". So it would mean something like "to me". Perhaps the "dabas" is a vernacular form of "to give"? In modern Spanish this word would mean "you gave", which would fit very nicely with "mihi", but I'm mixing languages here.
RE: 116v - ReneZ - 21-04-2016
Latin 'mihi' was also occasionally written as 'michi'.
Nick Pelling's preferred explanation for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is based on this explanation.
RE: 116v - Searcher - 21-04-2016
"tar tere" may be "tar cere". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. = "You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Latin) - wax. So, "tar cera".