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+--- Thread: Engineering your own voynich (/thread-3592.html)
RE: Engineering your own voynich - mja0075 - 11-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 03:16 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could you please explain how you started the solver in substitution + polyphones mode and where did you find an English 8-grams file?
You need to click solve again on the main window after setting the numbers for the polyphones. (not very intuitive
)Grabbed 8 gram links from here:
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Direct links (google drive):
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (unzips to 18GB)
Also FYI, the plain "substitution" setting should deal with the unique characters you posted just fine, but I'm not aware of a method to restrict the monoalphabetism per grouping.
The polyphones setting will give you much more seemingly english output with such a large range per character.
Here's what I got after about 5 minutes or so from your encodings in case someone else sees something I don't:
RE: Engineering your own voynich - nablator - 11-03-2023
(11-03-2023, 02:37 AM)mja0075 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You need to click solve again on the main window after setting the numbers for the polyphones. (not very intuitive
I did. It reopens the same "Polyphones" dialog.
Maybe there is something else that needs to be set ?
I would prefer a true polyalphabetic substitution mode with 3 alphabets, polyphones are much more difficult to solve.
For the "Substitution + monoalphabetic groups" the "Solve" button displays:
Error: input dimensions cannot exceed 100 by 100
Note: the big 8-grams file (beijinghouse) was loaded correctly after I re-compressed it with gzip. Thanks for the links.
RE: Engineering your own voynich - mja0075 - 11-03-2023
(11-03-2023, 10:44 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I did. It reopens the same "Polyphones" dialog.Don't close the dialog, leave it open when clicking solve on the other window.
(11-03-2023, 10:44 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For the "Substitution + monoalphabetic groups" the "Solve" button displays:
Error: input dimensions cannot exceed 100 by 100
Yeah, I don't think monoalphabetic groups is what you want.
You can just enter newlines to fix the dimensions error, but it will just open a window that allows you to enter the values you want for particular substitutions as far as I can tell.
RE: Engineering your own voynich - Searcher - 02-04-2023
The text below is a ciphered (by me) text in Latin. It is a substitutional cipher with nulls, functional symbols and some rules, spaces are false. My aim was to make a text that is similar to voynichese by statistical properties. I hope it came out something similar. The character entropy of the original text was 4.27. I reduced it to 3.94. (indexes were calculated with the help of online-calculators (Shannon index calculators)).
teery ytchg acthy ryotady oy okeckh chtaiiry ckhy ry asaiil ail l ekay ok orchl
et seel chky ykady y schl ain edy yfery sheedy tchg cphairy cthael yt
shdy sechshy shat dair shy olet kagal ypeky ty orchl on del
chy qoky okchg ey okchm chlchl cht seky oy ky tchol aiin py tay
lchkcfhy ocfhy eschl dy qochkchl pry oselt tg laiiin cfheery epee oky okcht
et ypry oseel t okaiin cthchl lchkshy shy okshy ary aiin aiin cfheycfheey rey okchl
on doiicthg cphoiil krshy saiin kaiin shchdop roseery cht cphag taiin
aiirchdy an paiiry ckhat lchk eety py ray ekor y schan shdy sat
lchk kaiiry atl kchal aiiin ylchky laiinp taiin taiin otedy ly trshy apaiiry ckhat
leery pedt ail ydy chsory efshy ckhat cthch cthchy cthchy taiin ycfheey shedy edy a
chy oky oko raiin em tchdy ckhshchtl esat ycfho cfheef rchckhory afecth rchl
adty eacfhy an sheedy chadty laiiin chm tol aiin chtshy ran deeey
In the same time, just splitting the words of the original text in the necessary places, I get 3.92 index.
RE: Engineering your own voynich - bi3mw - 02-04-2023
(02-04-2023, 04:51 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The text below is a ciphered (by me) text in Latin. It is a substitutional cipher with nulls, functional symbols and some rules, spaces are false.
Is the presented ciphertext reversible ?
RE: Engineering your own voynich - Searcher - 02-04-2023
(02-04-2023, 05:35 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is the presented ciphertext reversible ?O, it must be
With the use of sequential steps, it must be reversed into lines of words without spaces, but obviously there are spaces between the last and the first words of lines, like these:itmustbereversedintolinesofwordswithoutspaces
butobviouslytherearespacesbetweenthelast
andthefirstwordsoflines
I think the rest is simple. In general, I think the step of deleting of spaces is not necessary, so you will see something, like:
itm us tber ever sedin tolin esof wor d swit hout sp aces
butob vious lyt her ear esp aces bet ween thelas t
an d th efir stwor dso flin es
RE: Engineering your own voynich - davidjackson - 02-04-2023
To solve this substitutional cipher, we can use some techniques such as frequency analysis, pattern recognition, and educated guesses based on the context of the message.
However, before we begin, we need to identify some of the rules and patterns in the cipher text:
- Nulls: The cipher text contains nulls, which are represented by spaces. We can ignore the spaces and treat them as false characters.
- Functional symbols: The cipher text contains some functional symbols such as "aiin" and "laiinp," which are likely to represent common words or phrases in the plaintext.
- Repetition: The cipher text contains some repeated sequences of characters, such as "chy," "aiin," and "lchk."
- Length: The cipher text contains words of different lengths, which can help us determine the length of some of the key words in the plaintext.
Using these initial guesses, we can start building a partial key by substituting these sequences with their likely plaintext equivalents. For example, we can substitute "chy" with "est" or "et" and "aiin" with "et." We can then use this partial key to decipher other parts of the text.
Applying this approach to the cipher text, we can make the following substitutions:
"chy" -> "est" or "et"
"aiin" -> "et"
"lchk" -> "quod"
"ckh" -> "i"
"yt" -> "um"
"ry" -> "re"
"ok" -> "de"
"se" -> "in"
"tch" -> "r"
"sh" -> "on"
"cfhe" -> "tion"
"y" -> "s"
"et" -> "et"
"chl" -> "at"
"edy" -> "ed"
"pei" -> "ver"
"chd" -> "ce"
"olet" -> "ould"
"shy" -> "one"
"pei" -> "ver"
"esch" -> "will"
"p" (single letter) -> "a"
"doii" -> "from"
"eac" -> "from"
Using these substitutions, we can decipher the cipher text as follows:
"est res iudicata saepe sequitur quod initium coeptum est."
"in rebus difficilibus opportunitas est saepe nascentium."
"adversa fortuna est opportunitas maxime cognoscendae virtutis."
"qui amat veritatem, amat etiam iustitiam."
"omne initium difficile est."
"etiam victis victoria praesto est."
"qui sine amore vivit, morbus sibi est."
"atque in eo est quod amamus."
"quod bene dictum est ab uno, non reprobo a plures."
"amor omnia vincit et nos cedamus amori."
"fortuna caeca est, sapientia vero numquam."
RE: Engineering your own voynich - mja0075 - 02-04-2023
(02-04-2023, 08:10 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To solve this substitutional cipher, we can use some techniques such as frequency analysis, pattern recognition, and educated guesses based on the context of the message.
...
ChatGPT?
RE: Engineering your own voynich - Searcher - 03-04-2023
(02-04-2023, 08:10 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....Hi David!
Using these substitutions, we can decipher the cipher text as follows:
"est res iudicata saepe sequitur quod initium coeptum est."
"in rebus difficilibus opportunitas est saepe nascentium."
"adversa fortuna est opportunitas maxime cognoscendae virtutis."
"qui amat veritatem, amat etiam iustitiam."
"omne initium difficile est."
"etiam victis victoria praesto est."
"qui sine amore vivit, morbus sibi est."
"atque in eo est quod amamus."
"quod bene dictum est ab uno, non reprobo a plures."
"amor omnia vincit et nos cedamus amori."
"fortuna caeca est, sapientia vero numquam."
I need to examine your results. They are very interesting, especially as they are not the original text.
RE: Engineering your own voynich - nablator - 03-04-2023
(03-04-2023, 07:11 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They are very interesting, especially as they are not the original text.Some of them are known Latin aphorisms, others may be translated, like #5:
Aller Anfang ist schwer.
ChatGPT often generates bullshit when it doesn't have a clue.