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+--- Thread: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? (/thread-3093.html)
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Jorge_Stolfi - 10-06-2026
(09-06-2026, 10:38 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-06-2026, 03:53 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think I saw astrological/astronomical diagrams in some manuscript with nude people in some sectors.Maybe you mean this (ULIXBONENSIS, Roland, fl. 1430 Physionomia) or similar works:
No, thanks, but it was not that one.
But I am curious, what are those nude male figures? I see the Zodiac signs above them, and they are not 12...
All the best, --stolfi
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Antonio García Jiménez - 10-06-2026
They are 19, 12 for the signs of the zodiac and 7 for the planets, which in the Middle Ages included the sun and the moon and the five known planets.
The nude male figures represent the physical characteristics bestowed by the stars. Each sign and planet provides specific traits such as height, strength, hair color, and so on.
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Stefan Wirtz_2 - 10-06-2026
The significant differences of such astronomical/astrological use of nudes, compared to VMS, are:
- the „nymphs“ in buckets/tubs connect to their stars with the hands, not with heads - to be more exact, mostly with their left hands, but also with right hands.
- not all „star-nymphs“ are nude, some show clothing randomly
- the number 19 (even if the 12+7 addition was accepted and common) does not appear anywhere in VMs zodiacs, we know the counts of 29, 15, 30, maybe 31, depends on what is counting.
The use of left hand for important matters (like touching a star) is quite a no-go in many west-european, and a lot of eastern cultures. For Europe, this is connected to spread of Christianity, but also some other reasons may be causing the preference of right, „good“ hands.
Figures in whole VMS are preferring to present items with their left hands, but right-hand-use is also represented.
This brings back to question of nude nymphs and their jobs.
The relevant questions to ask are:
- did the draftsman/painter just don‘t care for left hands‘ prejudices or did he even intentionally draw these as acting parts?
- are there (european) cultures not caring for the choice of left or right hands, or even with a special meaning of using left hands under certain circumstances? (there are some)
- why female representations, randomly clothed?
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - JustAnotherTheory - 13-06-2026
Could it be that the nymphs are sorted in the following manner:
- Nude, in buckets: birth and/or childhood
- Nude, outside of buckets: children
- Clothed: adult
So the nymphs represent the different stages of a woman's life, according to houses of the moon (the 28 mansiones lunae), the zodiacs and the lucky numbers and lucky years for each person born under a specific constellation (the guldene zahl in 14-15th century astrology)?
One of the circular diagrams might also represent the calculation of the sunday number (Sonntagszahl) and how that affects the leap year (Schaltjahr and Schaltjahrzbuchstaben).
These were all standard divinatory practices in the 1400s.
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Jimmy123 - 15-06-2026
So basically voynich ms is divination for women??
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Stefan Wirtz_2 - 15-06-2026
(13-06-2026, 01:53 PM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Could it be that the nymphs are sorted in the following manner:
- Nude, in buckets: birth and/or childhood
- Nude, outside of buckets: children
- Clothed: adult
So the nymphs represent the different stages of a woman's life,[..]
Still everything is possible about VMS contents, so it is also possible that some passages are appraisals of marriage and motherhood as well.
Since very many zodiac nymphs‘ labels begin with ok- or ot- „word stems“, there might be a lot or all female relationships (mother, daughter, aunt, grandmother, etc.) involved.
At least female figures are clearly a majority item of VMS, that is safe to say.
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Jimmy123 - 15-06-2026
Sorry but why would those prefixes conclude that these are mother daughters relationships
Sorry for bad English
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Stefan Wirtz_2 - 15-06-2026
Depends on how, for example, a row of "mother, grandmother, grand-grandmother" etc. is constructed within your language: here in English (and in German) this is done by adding -mother / -mutter to changing prefixes;
but other languages can be constructed with some leading prefix meaning "mother", and following diferentiations like "mother-older" or the more ingoing mother-in-law, which is even another relation.
A source language of Voynichese may have such constructions.
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - Barbrey - 22-06-2026
I think it’s best to think of the nymph as a relational symbol with one stable referent. My interpretation of her is as prima materia, the prime matter, as a pun on the name prime mother or first mother, which is exactly what prima materia is. Prima materia is protean in itself, imprinting forms with a specific combination of the elements, and that mixture is only appropriate to the correct form. Prima materia is at the foundation of everything in the created form so she can change shape at will. She keeps her identity as prima materia - thus she can represent women as much as men, for instance, because she’s always a pregnant woman, but you can’t tell what she’s doing or who she’s enacting except by her props, her expressions, her gestures or stance, or a narrative that she occupies. The entire manuscript is made up of symbols, however, so her props aren’t necessarily what they seem to be either. Still, if you think of her as substance not form, it makes things easier to figure out. For instance, if you see her bathing in a green pool that has a decorative ring around it only found in the Mineralus sphere of the rosettes page, you could conclude that she is not a she bathing in a mineral pool, but that she is the mineral being bathed.
RE: [Nymph Philosophy] Why the nude female form? - JustAnotherTheory - 23-06-2026
Let me go back a bit to the discussion about Taccola. I wonder why the author(s) decided to use De Ingeneis as source material for the VMS sketch. What reason is there? That is a very rare book. It is not about bathing. There just happen to be some illustrations of water flowing in different basins due to the architectural nature of the book.
Why not just invent your own bath "designs"? Why the need to take it from a rare manuscript?
Is this maybe an indication, that someone wanted the manuscript to look like one from the 1400s?
Perhaps, in order to convince an art collector or alchemist to buy the VMS? This would be an indication of fraud/hoax.