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+--- Thread: Cannons versus Pipes (/thread-2959.html)
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Bernd - 29-01-2026
Sun with pipes from Palatino 766
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RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Jorge_Stolfi - 29-01-2026
(29-01-2026, 03:48 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sun with pipes from Palatino 766
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Wow! The author somehow knew about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. events!
All the best, --stolfi
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Antonio García Jiménez - 29-01-2026
Obviously the author has drawn tubes to channel some of the sun's rays.
Taccola drew many machines, including hydraulic ones with pipes to channel water. I suppose that in the image of the sun, Taccola intended to depict tubes to channel light. It's the same as with the tubes in the Voynich Rosettes. In this case, the artist drew them to channel starlight.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Bernd - 30-01-2026
Another MS with tubes, cannons, cloudbands, sun/moon faces and naked women:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., ca. 1405, Bohemia. It is said to be one of the inspirations for Taccola. Several copies from the 15th century exist
Cod. Pal. germ. 787, 1430
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BSB Clm 30150, 1430
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Ms. germ. qu. 15, 1450/60
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Cod. Durlach 11. 15. century
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Some of thes imagery appearsquite similar to Taccola's I think it would be worth to check the surviving copies listed here:
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RE: Cannons versus Pipes - ReneZ - 30-01-2026
There are also a few manuscript copies of the 'military engineering' book by Valturius, two in library of congress:
Rosenwald 6: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Rosenwald 7: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
but these should be from around 1460
I have also seen some Greek examples. Antonio may know more about the Madrid 'Skylitzes' MS, but there were others too.
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(note the lady in the tub and another 'tub' with heraldic patterns).
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Bernd - 30-01-2026
Some interesting imagery from the Rosenwald5+6 mentioned above
These are copies of Vegetius' De rei militari and one of the sources for Taccola's works. However, Taccola faded into obscurity soon after his death and to my knowledge, his works were never printed. In contrast, his sources Vegetius' De rei militari and Bellifortis by Konrad Kyeser remained popular throughout the 15th century and were frequently copied as manuscripts and later printed. I therefore wonder if the imagery of works by the 3 authors cross-influenced each other. It all is somewhat similar.
A notable feature of the Rosenwald6 De rei militari is the 3-dimensional wolkenband-like structure indicating ground. In Taccola's manuscripts it often designates coastline, much like the border of VM waterbodies. Also both copies contain buildings with swallowtail merlons. Rosenwald5 has vastly superior imagery compared to #6. The imagery is largely but not fully identical.
Rosenwald6:
Weird pipes
Cannons
Onion tower
Mermaid on a tube on top of a tower
Round diagrams with zodiac
Rosenwald5:
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-01-2026
René, of course I know the Byzantine chronicle of the Skylitzes manuscript. It is one of the jewels of the National Library of Spain. In 2024, the manuscript was unbound for restoration, and 24 bifolios were displayed in a room.
Note that the "lady in a tube" you mention is actually the baptism of a king in a baptismal font, since in the Greek Orthodox rite baptism is done by immersion.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Koen G - 30-01-2026
(30-01-2026, 03:46 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some interesting imagery from the Rosenwald5+6 mentioned above
These are copies of Vegetius' De rei militari and one of the sources for Taccola's works.
Very interesting, thanks! These particular manuscripts were copied after Taccola's death, but it does seem clear that he had a version of this, which influenced some of his choices.
What stood out to me in the images you posted is the scallop patterns around what I assume to be joints in the metal (?). I don't know if these are purely decorative, a result of the working process, or something reinterpreted by the copyist. I don't remember seeing something like it in Taccola.
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - Jorge_Stolfi - 30-01-2026
(30-01-2026, 03:46 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some interesting imagery from the Rosenwald5+6 mentioned above
Interesting indeed!
But the "telephone game" problem shows... In the second image, the water screw of Archimedes and the water-raising wheel are depicted as spewing water from both ends. At some point in the copying chain there was an "artist" who had no idea of how those devices worked or what was their purpose...
Quote:A notable feature of the Rosenwald6 De rei militari is the 3-dimensional wolkenband-like structure indicating ground. In Taccola's manuscripts it often designates coastline, much like the border of VM waterbodies.
I would not call those lines "wolkenbands" There does not seem to be any connection -- not in original inspiration (edges of clouds vs edges of water bodies), conventional meaning (Heaven-Earth boundary vs. land-water boundary) or from just copying for decorative effect (like VMS f68v3 from that Oresme T-O diagram) .
In fact it seems that the VMS Scribe or BEEEP mistook the wolkenband of that Oresme diagram for the edge of a pool, or maybe the edge of a thick plate.
I would say that drawing the edge of a natural water body as "a wavy line with swollen crests and throughs" and vertical cliffs is a handy simplification/stylization that an artist could have "invented" on his own. The VMS Scribe may have copied the edge of the pool at the bottom of f82r from some book, but he may also have invented it on his own. Like the use of similar lines to indicate splashing water instead -- at the NW corner of f79r, and around the "footbaths" at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f80v.
All the best, --stolfi
RE: Cannons versus Pipes - DG97EEB - 30-01-2026
(30-01-2026, 03:46 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some interesting imagery from the Rosenwald5+6 mentioned above
These are copies of Vegetius' De rei militari and one of the sources for Taccola's works. However, Taccola faded into obscurity soon after his death and to my knowledge, his works were never printed. In contrast, his sources Vegetius' De rei militari and Bellifortis by Konrad Kyeser remained popular throughout the 15th century and were frequently copied as manuscripts and later printed. I therefore wonder if the imagery of works by the 3 authors cross-influenced each other. It all is somewhat similar.
A notable feature of the Rosenwald6 De rei militari is the 3-dimensional wolkenband-like structure indicating ground. In Taccola's manuscripts it often designates coastline, much like the border of VM waterbodies. Also both copies contain buildings with swallowtail merlons. Rosenwald5 has vastly superior imagery compared to #6. The imagery is largely but not fully identical.
Rosenwald6:
Weird pipes
Cannons
Onion tower
Mermaid on a tube on top of a tower
Round diagrams with zodiac
Rosenwald5:
In the round diagram with zodiac, none of the pictures match the text. I can't read the Latin. Is it deliberate?