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Gemini crossed arms imagery - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html) +--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html) +--- Thread: Gemini crossed arms imagery (/thread-591.html) |
RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - bi3mw - 18-09-2018 (17-09-2018, 09:47 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... Also too late (2nd half of the 15th century) but clearly visible. ![]() British Library MS. Sloane 2560, Donum Dei, 2nd half of the 15th century, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The Donum Dei possibly goes back to 1475. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Koen G - 18-09-2018 Just for the record, Saurma considers the following image the best approximation of "true" crossed arms in Lauber's stock. It's from the same MS Marco posted from but another page. It's also the image I used in my blog post to show how Lauber's workers were either excessively pragmatic or just didn't always have a clue. The story is about a man and a woman who are enemies (he just maimed her husband) but here they are shown in a lovers' pose. But their faces are sad so that's one thing I guess. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. If you compare this to the image Marco posted before, you can see how it's still pretty close to the double ring pose. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Searcher - 18-09-2018 Bi3mw, yes, I found today that Marco also posted this image (from Sloane 2560) on the Pinterest. My searching led me to a little earlier pictures of the "Double pelican" vessel. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 1498 Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit Dresden Ms. N. 110, 1492. ![]() Koen, it is true about clothes. The VMs image of Gemini is not close match for mentioned alchemical emblems but I support that idea that the pose with crossed arms is very significant, most likely it was depicted intentionally, as it is not usual for depictions of Twins in that time. Owing to later alchemical manuscripts and emblems we can see how this attribute became a part of symbolism meaning alchemical wedding. Later the alchemical King and Queen appeared either in dresses and naked. Even if their hands weren't crossed, they kept crossed branches. It's just notable that this sign bacame especially traditional in alchemy. I wish to find an alchemical treatise of the early XV century which can be a source for later versions. For now, it seems, there are two possible explanations: 1) the VMs Twins represent marriage of some real persons (though this idea is not my favourite) or 2) have the alchemical meaning "marriage". Naked (purified from the dirt of materiality) embraced lovers mean sublimation which is also represented by double retorts. Sublimatio.
![]() Quote:Gemini. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Koen G - 18-09-2018 Searcher: at the moment I'd prefer an option (3) which is that the person who had to draw in Zodiac signs did not have a full Zodiac as a model and sourced his images from other books. One of those books must have been one with a theme of courtly love. In my opinion, the alchemical examples are certainly related but sit on a different branch. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Searcher - 18-09-2018 (18-09-2018, 08:59 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher: at the moment I'd prefer an option (3) which is that the person who had to draw in Zodiac signs did not have a full Zodiac as a model and sourced his images from other books. One of those books must have been one with a theme of courtly love. In my opinion, the alchemical examples are certainly related but sit on a different branch.Ok, I agree. There must be three options. It would be good to know more ideas. More options? RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Koen G - 18-09-2018 I've been researching now into what marriage ceremonies looked like in formal manuscripts. Interestingly, it is not always a priest, or even a man, who joins the couple. The by far most common and standard pose is this, where a figure of authority joins the right hands of the couple. This can be shown with hands clasped, or approaching as in this example. ![]() Quote:De Mulieribus Claris: Scene, Tertia Aemilia arranging Marriage of two Servants -- Tertia Aemilia, wearing hennin, stands flanked by man, wearing cap and woman wearing headdress. With her right hand Tertia Aemilia grasps right wrist of the man and right wrist of the woman with her left hand, holding their hands in front of her body. As we've been figuring out, this confirms that the crossed arms pose likely meant something else, some step to be taken before they'd get married. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Searcher - 19-09-2018 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - -JKP- - 19-09-2018 I don't know very much about medieval marriage ceremonies, I've only read a little bit and I don't know if the sources were well-informed, but it's my understanding that a "promise" or engagement ceremony before the marriage was fairly common and the couple would sometimes live together until the woman conceived, and then get married. This would make the engagement a pretty important event. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Searcher - 19-09-2018 Oh, the keyboard on my phone doesn't want to work correctly today and makes me nervous. If I correctly understand, dextrarum junctio (joining of right hands) was usual for Christian wedding ceremonies but crossing of both hands is rather from pagan traditions, maybe, from the Celtic handfasting (hands of a bride and a dridegroom were crossed and bound with a rope). Quote:The Binding (or Handfasting) Cord. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. RE: Gemini crossed arms imagery - Koen G - 19-09-2018 Back in the day when I first researched the crossed hands pose I also ended up on such sources. What I'd really like to read is a scholarly article that would cast some light on the representation in manuscript art, but I haven't found one so far. Compared to the standard christian tradition of uniting the right hands, the crossed arms are rare and specific. (Which is all the more interesting for VM research) |