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+--- Thread: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... (/thread-4802.html)
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - JoJo_Jost - 04-02-2026
ubren cannot be u, but must be vbren, because otherwise valsen would be written as ualsen, and ua does not exist as an initial vowel in German.
And pb does not exist as an initial consonant in German. Only ‘vb’ because v can be the abbreviation of ver – typical for Bavarian, as the “er” in ‘ver’ is pronounced without sound.
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - nablator - 05-02-2026
(04-02-2026, 11:29 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.ubren cannot be u, but must be vbren, because otherwise valsen would be written as ualsen, and ua does not exist as an initial vowel in German.
Initial "u" were written "v" (same meaningless convention as in Latin) so you see for example "vnd" and "vnser" in the image posted by Aga Tentakulus:
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - JoJo_Jost - 05-02-2026
(05-02-2026, 01:18 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Initial "u" were written "v" (same meaningless convention as in Latin) so you see for example "vnd" and "vnser" in the image posted by Aga Tentakulus:I assumed that it is an alliteration, as is often the case with Charms. And since “ua” and “pb” are not possible in German, only the v remained from the three possibilities u, v, p: ualsen ubren // palsen pbren both impossible.
valzen and vbren = possible
(and sorry, but i know that u=v=u - look at my threads
)PS Have I missed something, or why has the focus shifted away from "falten" und "verbrennen"?
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Aga Tentakulus - 05-02-2026
As soon as ‘en’ appears at the end of a word, I become suspicious.
The ‘en’ also forms its own word.
Example:
amen/at one, umen/around one.
Bunny? Yes, I have one. Do you have it? Yes, I have it.
And many more, just like in the picture. Did you notice the strange spelling in ‘der’?
Thus, ‘val-den’ could also mean ‘in the case of den’.
Sobald am ende eines Wortes "en" auftaucht werde ich misstrauisch.
Das "en" bildet auch ein eigenes Wort.
Beispiel:
amen/an einem , umen/um einen.
Häschen? Ja ich hanen. Hast Du ihn? Ja ich habe ihn.
Und viele mehr, genau wie im Bild. Ist das seltsame Zeichen in "der" aufgefallen?
So könnte "val-den" auch "im Fall den" bedeuten.
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - JoJo_Jost - 05-02-2026
@ Aga Almost all infinitives in German have an “en” at the end: "stehen, leben, laufen". That has nothing to do with “ein.” It's by far the most common ending in German.
Can you enlarge the text excerpt?
Nahezu alle Infinitive im deutschen haben ein "en" hinten: stehen, leben, laufen, das hat nichts mit "ein" zu tun. Es ist die Häufigste Endung im Deutschen mit extrem großen Abstand.
kannst du mal den Textausschnitt vergrößern?
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - MarcoP - 05-02-2026
I am not sure it makes any sense, but that 'e' in valsen looks to me like it could be e^ or c^ with an r-abbreviation curl (a shape similar to s). There's a stain there, so the thing is highly dubious. If 8 stands for short-s, like in the Zurich ms, they could be two words "vals e[...r...]n" "vals c[...r...]n".
(an example from Cappelli, and what I think could be "obstupescere" from Zurich 3v)
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - Aga Tentakulus - 05-02-2026
@JoJo_Jost
I'm not talking about German either, but Alemannic.
"gibn/giben" = gib ihn/gib ein , give him/give one
The small differences.
Nudeln, Nudln, Nudle
Noodle, noodles, noodle
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - pedestrian - 05-02-2026
(05-02-2026, 09:15 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure it makes any sense, but that 'e' in valsen looks to me like it could be e^ or c^ with an r-abbreviation curl (a shape similar to s). There's a stain there, so the thing is highly dubious. If 8 stands for short-s, like in the Zurich ms, they could be two words "vals e[...r...]n" "vals c[...r...]n".
It could make sense as a viable German word if the last letter were also 'altered' by the stain: valsc[n/?] -> valsch = false/wrong/mistaken. However, don't most 'h' forms in similar handwriting have a looped ascender? And the stain isn't really big enough to cover up any 'h' ascender at all, whether looped or unlooped.
Just for a moment to engage in everyone's favourite bias though - looking for (further dubious) points to support a conjecture: the following word on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could then logically and grammatically, if not orthographically, be 'uhren'. 'valsch uhren' = incorrect clocks.
I vaguely feel someone might have suggested this reading before. But it is internally inconsistent: last letter of valsc[?] = unlooped 'h', second letter of 'u[?]ren' = looped 'h'.
(Pah, foolish consistency... the hobgoblin of little minds, as Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote
)Probably -> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. thread, but 'aror shey valsch uhren so nim gasmich' would possibly mean something like: 'aror shey' was wrong because incorrectly set 'clocks' were used in encoding whatever it was meant to be, so to remedy the situation take goats' milk. Which in turn suggests a clock or volvelle-like mechanism was used for encoding Voynichese.
Wow, ok, that's a lot of un-evidenced leaps of imagination.
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - JoJo_Jost - 05-02-2026
@ Aga, hast du nicht einfach mal einen größeren Textausschnitt?
@ Aga, do you have a longer excerpt?
RE: A good match, perhaps from the Zürich area... - zachary.kaelan - 05-02-2026
(05-02-2026, 09:15 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(an example from Cappelli, and what I think could be "obstupescere" from Zurich 3v)
Looks like ch' (ch'), a potential variant of sh that occurs 404 times.