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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: F66r question (/thread-3311.html)
RE: F66r question - Wladimir D - 09-08-2020
See how β is spelled in the handwritten alphabet in the Gutenberg Bible.
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RE: F66r question - -JKP- - 09-08-2020
Wladimir, I grabbed a clip and added the alphabet so we can post a copy here. The handwriting looks to me like it's roughly 1540s to 1590s (see the f, the e and the p shape):
Morgan: Mainz: Johann Gutenberg & Johann Fust, ca. 1455, PML 12
RE: F66r question - Aga Tentakulus - 15-08-2020
Actually, I have been looking for an example of the "y" spelling for a long time. I know from this region books are rare.
I would not have thought that I would find it in the German-Turkish book of Emma May Smith.
translation
It gets longer and bigger
Here he writes out the double S with two normal S.
But the ending S is different.
It is possible that the VM writer does it the other way round.
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
With all love to the possibilities:
"der mus mel" and "del" do not even exist.
This is not German, not even in the beginning.
To keep the context, grammar and meaning of the image. It is:
"und den muss des" ("and that must be the", for form of this or that")
Translated with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (free version)
RE: F66r question - -JKP- - 15-08-2020
Aga, that last example, shows exactly what I said in my previous posts.
This scribe rounds the hook on the "s" so that it isn't mistaken for "l", which is more angular. Also notice how the stem on the "s" goes below the baseline and the "l" does not. That makes it easy to tell them apart for this particular scribe.
I like the way it shows how the long-ess is used for the double-ess in the final position, and the sigma-shaped ess for single ess. This is not super-common, so it's a good example of this.
RE: F66r question - Aga Tentakulus - 11-10-2020
And another example why it is called "den mus des" and not "del"
Extract from a legal text of the town of Schaffhausen. ca. 1300
I think that someone who writes legal texts also knows the language.
Also here different S are used.
And now show me an example of the twisted "m". Please a whole sentence.
("uffm" on one) and ("uffz" on that) is not the same. But I need to see the context.
RE: F66r question - Anton - 11-10-2020
Interesting. But in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. we have a loop, there it's an unmistakable "L" in my opinion. While here, in these "S" variants, there is no loop.
RE: F66r question - Aga Tentakulus - 11-10-2020
See example above. Here the "S" has a loop.
At some point you have to decide what you want to see. Nothing will change. It is called "y den mus des"
In contrast to the "S", it pulls the "L" to the lower base. It is only one writing variant.
RE: F66r question - Anton - 11-10-2020
Do you mean the "s" in "gerihas"? I think it would be stretching a point to call this a loop, it is really a poorly manifested loop versus the explicit loop in f66r. Furthermore, in this MS the "L" is written without a loop, which is in contrast to the VMS marginalia where "L" is consistently with a loop.
In other words, these are, paleographically, two different approaches to writing (I mean the VMS versus this "Richtebrief"). I think paleographic analysis should go for comparing writing on the whole, not just one single letter. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
RE: F66r question - Aga Tentakulus - 11-10-2020
I mean nothing works without sentence and context.
So for example you write "gerihas". I know, but it's a court of law, although strangely written. "des geri©hts" (Court).
No I mean the example in the picture above. "gross, nuss, stoss"
see article of 15.8
RE: F66r question - Anton - 11-10-2020
(11-10-2020, 08:00 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."des geri©hts" (Court).
Ah, surely. Perhaps, rather "gerichtis".
(11-10-2020, 08:00 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No I mean the example in the picture above. "gross, nuss, stoss"
Ah, I see. But there the "s" goes below the baseline. In You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the character in question both has a loop and is above the baseline.