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+--- Thread: Morten St George Theory (/thread-2263.html)
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RE: Morten St George Theory - -JKP- - 02-03-2019
Quote:Morten St. George Wrote: On a couple of them I saw equal numbers of men and women conducting a religious or administrative meeting.
There's no evidence that it is a meeting. That's a huge assumption.
It might be a genealogy chart. It might be a list of nobility (which means both men and women).
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(01-03-2019, 06:23 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It looks pretty obvious to me that this gal is holding an animal hide in her left hand so I don't know why it was claimed to be a purse, which, I believe, is a handbag often carried by women.
![[Image: img-vms-animal-hide.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-animal-hide.jpg)
To me, it is a spindel with the symbol for ascending node. It is even sitting on an angle. It attaches to that glyph. Could that be relevant? Sorry, just occurred to me from looking at it again that it might be important. Huh that was weird, i checked on that glyph and it highlights a bunch of other vords that dont include it. Seems like all the cc89s...
Quote:Note that the "purse" has red coloring, the color of a carcass as seen here:
![[Image: img-vms-dead-carcass.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-dead-carcass.jpg)
Yes they used the same paint but that doesn't necessarily mean they are the same thing. What about the lady on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with the red headband, what is that to you? I don't know for sure yet.
Quote:Note that the "purse" has spots, just like a spotted jaguar as seen here:
![[Image: img-vms-spotted-predator.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-spotted-predator.jpg)
Not a jaguar. Could be lizard. For me it is a geological formation or possibly a fossil.
Quote:Actually, this jaguar, like the hybrid mermaid above, is a hybrid jaguar with alligator head, but the "purse" is only the jaguar. Note that gal has her right hand raised in a sign of triumph over the predator animal: Got ya!
It doesn't seem that way to me, seems like she is warning of danger, saying stop, and know what you need to know before proceeding.
Quote:The gal holding the hide is standing in a bucket of blue water, signaling pure rainwater used for cleaning as seen here:
![[Image: img-vms-gals-washing.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-gals-washing.jpg)
I agree the blue is fresh water. But my green is salt water, versus your swamp water.
Quote:A critical step in making parchment (or clothing) is to extensively wash the hide in clean water.
Note also that the gals were well-trained in preparing animal hides:
The gal on the right has just been taught how to clean animal hides and she is dreaming of making herself a skirt.
The medieval instrument she is holding in her right hand was used to clean animal hides. She is holding it in the middle but to use it they would grab each handle at the ends and use the curved blade to scrape the hide.
![[Image: img-vms-make-parchment.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-make-parchment.jpg)
Firstly i thought this was a Cathar baptism scene in your theory? Or does it morph like some of the rosettes do for me?
For me, the skirt means a port, like the other bucket thing above. That its transparent means it is not very sheltered and easily seen. The broken legs under the water with rocks and a brick mean it was destroyed before, flooded, landslide perhaps, rebuilt. Possibly multiple times, like your Cathar castle. She is Malcesine, or the castle there, or rather she stands for the community. The other stands for Riva del Garda and touches Malcesine's eye because they are within sight of each other. But they are ruled by different regional governments, Malcesine is Venetian from 1403. The tool is a caliper for measuring and means the lake they are standing in is drawn to different perspective than the other nymphs on the page, or it may be a compass that says draw a windrose centred here.
Quote:I think it is an open and shut case: the "purse" is an animal hide. Moreover, there were no stores in the Louisiana swamps and hence no place for these gals to go shopping. They didn't even need clothing, then why a purse?
I dont think it is so open and shut. By the way, Vviews purse could well be your hide, what else is a purse made of?
But for these three ideas there are probably hundreds more and they can't very easily all be right.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Morten St. George - 02-03-2019
(01-03-2019, 09:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just a post or two ago, you said it was a 15th century manuscript, now you are back to positing it to be an earlier creation.
Some people are unable to comprehend that there is a distinction between authorship date and publication date.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(01-03-2019, 11:45 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote="Koen G" pid='24993' dateline='1551431461']
But what if she killed the jaguar hybrid to make it into a purse?
Bahaha
Quote:No, not a purse. She wanted to make a skirt as shown in the illustration I posted.
But explain why it is transparent? Why is there rocks and a brick or what are those things if something else? Because it is a dream? Why are her legs twisted around?
RE: Morten St George Theory - Morten St. George - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 07:16 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The tool is a caliper for measuring and means the lake they are standing in is drawn to different perspective than the other nymphs on the page, or it may be a compass that says draw a windrose centred here.
I think it would be just wonderful if modern women had the courage and imagination that those Cathar women display. I am quite impressed with them.
Contemporary academia, I believe, classifies them as nymphs. These are not nymphs. Anyone who spends the time to carefully study their drawings will soon come to realize that the VMS depicts real women who, however briefly, lived in a real swamp.
And they are naked not because sexually-perverted Italian monks liked to draw nudes, as popularly believed, but because the weather at that moment was steamy hot and there was no one else around.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Morten St. George - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 06:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's no evidence that it is a meeting. That's a huge assumption.
I think it depicts a gathering a deceased Cathars who were either born or died during the corresponding zodiac month.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 03:18 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Now that JP, in a very recent post, has informed us of the source of that 6th century Sagittarius, I was able to check it out and the date is no longer an issue.
Ok.
Quote:Malice is really not my thing. There is a problem with the Sagittarius claims. I've checked out JP's two-legged Sagittarius pages as well as his crossbow pages and nowhere do I spot a hat with tail that looks like the one worn by the VMS Sagittarius.
![[Image: img-vms-two-legged-sagittarius.jpg]](http://manuscrit-de-voynich.com/img-vms-two-legged-sagittarius.jpg)
There are several here from Koen's collection.
![[Image: sleevess.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/sleevess.jpg?w=616)
![[Image: devonshire2.jpg?w=816]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/devonshire2.jpg?w=816)
![[Image: german.jpg?w=616]](https://herculeaf.files.wordpress.com/2018/09/german.jpg?w=616)
Quote:It's even gotten to the point where I suspect the VMS hat and tail might be pure fantasy, designed to cover up the tonsure of a medieval saint whose depiction with crossbow could have inspired the VMS Sagittarius. Most likely, tonsures were abhorrent to the Cathars. I think it would have been very nice of JP (who has access to thousands of medieval manuscripts compared to my none) to show us a medieval example of that hat and tail whether it be an archer or not, so as to link that style to a particular time and place, but unfortunately he has decided not to do that.
Im sure he has his collection too, i just happened to find these quicker.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 03:31 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-03-2019, 10:32 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you are talking about the pond critter with a single row of spots, it looks more like a salamander or lizard than a cat.
Yes, but I very much doubt that a salamander could have brought down the marsh deer that we see lying dead in water.
Wouldn't the more logical conclusion be that the salamander didn't bring down the marsh deer, instead of turning it into a jaguar wiith an alligator head?
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 07:20 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-03-2019, 09:29 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just a post or two ago, you said it was a 15th century manuscript, now you are back to positing it to be an earlier creation.
Some people are unable to comprehend that there is a distinction between authorship date and publication date.
No, i mean you said they migrated and wrote it then. On the vellum made of bison. Why would you want to test for bison protein if it is a copy of something made of bison?
(02-03-2019, 07:34 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(02-03-2019, 06:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's no evidence that it is a meeting. That's a huge assumption.
I think it depicts a gathering a deceased Cathars who were either born or died during the corresponding zodiac month.
It made more sense when it was a business meeting. Now it is just random dead people and no longer supports your socioreligious theory about the Cathars and the status of women.
RE: Morten St George Theory - Linda - 02-03-2019
(02-03-2019, 07:28 AM)Morten St. George Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(02-03-2019, 07:16 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The tool is a caliper for measuring and means the lake they are standing in is drawn to different perspective than the other nymphs on the page, or it may be a compass that says draw a windrose centred here.
I think it would be just wonderful if modern women had the courage and imagination that those Cathar women display. I am quite impressed with them.
Contemporary academia, I believe, classifies them as nymphs. These are not nymphs. Anyone who spends the time to carefully study their drawings will soon come to realize that the VMS depicts real women who, however briefly, lived in a real swamp.
And they are naked not because sexually-perverted Italian monks liked to draw nudes, as popularly believed, but because the weather at that moment was steamy hot and there was no one else around.
I think of them as nymphs, standing for societies that inhabited the various places portrayed. They convey information through poses, decoration, and hair. They are naked to remove cultural detail. I dont see any swamps, i see them as far larger waterbodies.