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+--- Thread: The Cliffs of Moher (/thread-5069.html)
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - JoJo_Jost - 22-11-2025
Quote:Resin-water bragget wash aids in occaisions(?) Petersham(or rough wollen cloth) flower-water replenish redivide, fold under, light drizzle tuft/nipple, twinge of pain little wound for some time festering how what fresh that penetrated path flower poured
Reordered, embellished:
Resin-water bragget wash comes in handy on occasion, flower-water replenish and redivide, fold under Petersham, light drizzle from tuft/nipple, a twinge of pain from little wound festering for a while, how all freshened that was penetrated by path-flower(weed) poured
Your translation only works through eisegesis: the text itself does not provide a coherent meaning, so the translator has to insert connections, motifs and images that are not actually there.
Instead of exegesis – that is, reading meaning from the words, as you are doing right now from what you are reading in this moment – eisegesis requires the meaning to be constructed around them so that the text appears comprehensible."
Without this ‘attribution of meaning’, the sentences disintegrate into meaningless fragments, as can be seen here – this here is a typical example of eisegesis.
= a poetic, pseudo-medieval scene is crafted out of very thin air.
This was the problem with most previous translation attempts, none of which were accepted either—just as yours will not be accepted and, like all the others before it, will be forgotten. You are simply the next in line... I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, as touching as your persistence is in opposing the reasonable arguments of all these recognized experts here (and I certainly don't mean myself) in order to avoid facing the facts. And I understand that you can't do that, given all the work you must have put into it—that alone deserves appreciation, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a clearly form of Eisigese.
And I realize that you see it differently...
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Doireannjane - 22-11-2025
One can argue that without punctuation, any translation will always be eisegesis. Irish also has a differing grammatical order to Englsih. To read it in English, it has to be reordered at least a little. That is translation.
I have touched every page and the sentences make sense. I'm working on getting this verified with actual professionals. Again, I have determined many of the plants that no one else have before through translation alone.
The following is a literal word for word translation and it makes sense.
Resin-water bragget wash aids in occaisions(?) Petersham(or rough wollen cloth) flower-water replenish redivide fold under light drizzle tuft/nipple twinge of pain little wound for some time festering how what fresh that penetrated path flower poured
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Doireannjane - 22-11-2025
Have you ever heard that old joke about how the Koala eats shoots and leaves?
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Doireannjane - 22-11-2025
When you really do consider punctuation, it makes your job to essentially automatically deny validation no matter what, all the more political and illogical/unreasonable. Especially as an Irish oriented text.
I had no idea what a crowfoot was, a coltsfoot, a dittany, a cochog, a bragget, a petersham before typing in characters letter by letter with my ears and with my lexicon into Teanglann. On my whole life and my government name which I'm not afraid to show
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - ReneZ - 22-11-2025
(22-11-2025, 07:15 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The following is a literal word for word translation and it makes sense.
Resin-water bragget wash aids in occaisions(?) Petersham(or rough wollen cloth) flower-water replenish redivide fold under light drizzle tuft/nipple twinge of pain little wound for some time festering how what fresh that penetrated path flower poured
This looks like a failed translation.
It does not look at all like anything that anyone would intentionally write down like that.
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Doireannjane - 22-11-2025
(22-11-2025, 07:56 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(22-11-2025, 07:15 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The following is a literal word for word translation and it makes sense.
Resin-water bragget wash aids in occaisions(?) Petersham(or rough wollen cloth) flower-water replenish redivide fold under light drizzle tuft/nipple twinge of pain little wound for some time festering how what fresh that penetrated path flower poured
This looks like a failed translation.
It does not look at all like anything that anyone would intentionally write down like that.
How do you mean? It makes sense to myself and other professionals even without punctuation.
Do you mean someone wouldn’t intentionally write it down like that in Irish or my English from Irish version?
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Jorge_Stolfi - 22-11-2025
(22-11-2025, 07:15 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Irish also has a differing grammatical order to Englsih. To read it in English, it has to be reordered at least a little.
Then, whenever you propose a translation, you should first give (1) the glyph-for-glyph transcription of the Voynichese glyphs into your phonetic Irish alphabet, according to your tables, (2) the Irish words that you think you recognize in those phonetic strings, in the current or ancient spelling, but in the same order, (3) the reordered sentence in grammatically correct Irish, if you think that it needs reordering, with punctuation, then (4) the word-for-word translation of that Irish sentence into English, in the same order, and only then (5) the translation into English, with whatever reordering and grammar adjustments are needed.
For instance, here is an example of how that would work for Japanese:
- (0) きのうかったさかなわおいしい
- (1) ki.no.u.ka.[dbl].ta.sa.ka.na.wa.o.i.shi.i
- (2) Kinō katta sakana wa oishī.
- (3) same as (2) - sentence is already grammatically correct Japanese.
- (4) yesterday bought fish [subj] good.
- (5) The fish that you bought yesterday is good.
For instance, in the Japanese example the word "katta" could also be translated into English as "I/he/she/it/we/they bought", or "I/you/he/she/it/we/they cut", and maybe more. I picked "you bought" because it seemed more likely. People who know Japanese would know that my translation was arbitrary at that point, etc.
Doing that for just one short VMS paragraph will go a long way towards getting people to take your proposal seriously. Posting tons of "translations" will not do it.
All the best, --stolfi
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - ReneZ - 22-11-2025
(22-11-2025, 08:32 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you mean someone wouldn’t intentionally write it down like that in Irish or my English from Irish version?
Indeed. I only see 'word salad', independent of the language.
This happens with all proposed translations that I have seen until now, and they are a great many.
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - JoJo_Jost - 22-11-2025
the real problem is:
Humans are so deeply convinced of their own convictions.
The silly part is that others are just as convinced of completely different convictions.
And because everyone is so convinced of their convictions, the verdict is simple: the other person must be wrong.
People then promote themselves to being smarter or better informed, etc – and assume the others are too clueless to grasp their convictions.
The silly part, again, is that everyone else is running the same script.
In most arguments, at least one person (sometimes both) is simply wrong.
And if you’re part of it, that person might be you!
But of course, every argument presented here is unquestionably correct
PS: In Germany, they say: "commas can kill:
“Let’s eat, Grandma.”
vs.
“Let’s eat Grandma.”
RE: The Cliffs of Moher - Rafal - 22-11-2025
Quote:I had no idea what a crowfoot was, a coltsfoot, a dittany, a cochog, a bragget, a petersham before typing in characters letter by letter
Are you convinced about petersham?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Petersham is named after the eighteenth century English lord You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. who invented an overcoat and breeches made of a special heavy woollen cloth with a round nap surface.