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+--- Thread: Petrasti's Celtic Theory (/thread-4961.html)
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Stefan Wirtz_2 - 04-09-2025
(erl.)
RE: The journey into an unknown world - dashstofsk - 04-09-2025
Petrasti is copying from online sources. His paragraph about lenition that included the words
an oíche
an uisce
ó Albain
seanathair
was just a direct copy from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 04-09-2025
Hi Tavi,
I watched the video you recommended
did you read my theory? It would be fantastic
I'd like to give some examples oft the colors blue and white because of repetition
Page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. line 6:
choa kaiin dain = goa kam ban = blue striped white
kam is from old Irish "cam" = twisted, bent, curved,crooced
goa and ban I explainted before
f2v:
first line: dain chor = ban gol = white flower
line 5: kchor c+hy daiiin chcthoy = k gol gha baim gTgoa = the flower are also in blue
f33v secound line:
otal dain choy = o tar ban goa = strong white blue
f47r: line 8
tchod choy = t gob goa = blue berry
f56r: line 8
schol choy = gor goa = leaf blue
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 07-09-2025
(04-09-2025, 09:08 PM)dashstofsk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Petrasti is copying from online sources. His paragraph about lenition that included the words
an oíche
an uisce
ó Albain
seanathair
was just a direct copy from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
hi dashstofsk, I've tried to combine an explanation of the pre-sound mutation in Voynich with the pre-sound mutation that still exists in Irish today. Unfortunately, I don't speak Gaelic and, (like almost everyone here) I'm using the World Wide Web for my research.
RE: The journey into an unknown world - dashstofsk - 08-09-2025
(07-09-2025, 06:11 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.pre-sound mutation in Voynich
Are you sure that you can see 'pre-sound mutation' in the manuscript?
I myself once had the same idea. I suspected, for instance, that words beginning qo- were just words beginning o- that required to be prefixed with q to be made consistent with some grammatical rule for eclipsis or mutation. I spent some time generating affinities between characters and character pairs bridging adjacent words. Searched for occurences where the characters at the start of a word were dependent on the characters at the end of the preceeding word. But I eventually concluded that this was not happening. Concluded that there is nothing in the text of the manuscript that suggested any hint of similarity to Welsh mutation or Gaelic eclipsis and aspiration.
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 09-09-2025
I'd like to give you a few examples, but for that we'll have to leave the EVA alphabet. If you consider EVA an unquestionable basis for translating the Voynich, then things will get difficult.
Let's take the word "ban" dain for white
we find in the manuscript ban as follow:
oban odain
aban ydain
ghoban c+hodain
goban chodain
kaban kadain
aPoban apodain
gban chdain
qoban qodain
Tban tdain
the word kam for jagged and serrated
we find the word as:
akam ykaiin
kokam kokaiin
gokam chokaiin
okam okaiin
hkam skaiin
qokam qokaiin
Tgkam tchkaiin
orkam olkaiin
rkam lkaiin
ghakam c+hykaiin
the word gob chod berry, we fill find as follow:
chod and c+hod
tgob tchod
kgob kchod
chkgob chkchod
qokgob qokchod
qotgob qotchod
orgob olchod
otgob otchod
the same symstem takes place with gol for flower chor
chor and c+hor
tgol tchor
bgol dchor
agol ychor
ogol ochor
qokgol qokchor
pgol pchor
kgol kchor
otgol otchor
okgol okchor
hgol schor
gogol chochor
the word gor chol for leaf
chol and c+hol
agor ychol
ogor ochol
qogor qochol
qokgor qokchol
qotgor qotchol
bgor dchol
hgor schol
kgor kchol
tgor tchol
pgor pchol
otgor otchol
I consider the letters k, p, t, f, b, g, a, o, qo, and h to be pre-sounds, as they can be consistently assigned to words as initial sounds.
We also have a sound change: g ch and gh c+h.
Around 88% of the words that begin with gh c+h also begin with g ch
Also the base words like e.g. gol chor that begin with g ch exist both with the gallow signs before the g and with the gallow sign integrated into the g (tch and cth). I haven't yet checked their frequency. but there seems to be a regularity
RE: The journey into an unknown world - ReneZ - 10-09-2025
(09-09-2025, 09:17 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you consider EVA an unquestionable basis for translating the Voynich, then things will get difficult.
Just to clarify and avoid confusion, Eva is just a convention for representing the Voynich glyphs using single-case Latin characters. It does not mean that the Voynich glyphs represent these Latin characters.
The same convention is used here by the forum software to show the Voynich glyphs using the eva font.
By the way, I am curious how you figured out to represent the Sh character as you do it. I simply use "Sh"
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 10-09-2025
(10-09-2025, 04:01 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-09-2025, 09:17 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you consider EVA an unquestionable basis for translating the Voynich, then things will get difficult.
Just to clarify and avoid confusion, Eva is just a convention for representing the Voynich glyphs using single-case Latin characters. It does not mean that the Voynich glyphs represent these Latin characters.
The same convention is used here by the forum software to show the Voynich glyphs using the eva font.
By the way, I am curious how you figured out to represent the Sh character as you do it. I simply use "Sh"
I find the tilde symbol closer to the original.
On my keyboard,(all in Eva Hand 1) I type the "c" then press the key to the right of the Ctrl key, along with the asterisk/plus/tilde key next to Enter and later the "h"
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 10-09-2025
I forgot one point about why I think we're dealing with a Celtic language. In the surviving Celtic languages, the "a" is pronounced in two ways. We find the same in the voynich manuscript
a and y
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I found a very nice website that explains Gaelic and its pronunciation. When you hear the Celtic language, it's pretty much as "crazy" as the Voynich. And you also understand why the Celtic languages is still not compatible with the Latin alphabet. Maybe this could explain the voynich alphabet, too.
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if you hear the following sentence in gaelic "mura h-eil ise ga iarraidh, ithidh mise e" (Nr. 4)
listen to the word "ighidh" (will eat) then look at page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. first line, from the voynich manuskript
you will find the word cthses (tgheh) both words sound very similar
I would translate the first line as follow:
fachar ykal ar ytaiin c+hol c+hor cthses y kor c+hordy
fagal from irish fag/fagann/fagail = to leave
a kar = his root
al atam = (still not solved)
ghol ghor = leaf flower
tghih = eat
a kol = his bud
ghorba = something like leafy from leaf
If a "tam?" of the leaves leaves its root, eat its leafy bud
RE: The journey into an unknown world - dashstofsk - 11-09-2025
(10-09-2025, 08:56 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When you hear the Celtic language, it's pretty much as "crazy" as the Voynich. And you also understand why the Celtic languages is still not compatible with the Latin alphabet.
Untrue. Many sounds in Gaelic are made up using combinations of letters, which initially might seem a bit odd to a newcomer. Also consecutive consonants sometimes require a hidden vowel to be sounded. For instance in the word 'gorm' you gave before the pronounciation is like 'gorem'. If you were to take the trouble to find out something of this language group then you would see that spelling and pronunciation are rather consistent.
(10-09-2025, 08:56 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.mura h-eil ise ga iarraidh, ithidh mise e
The letter H in Gaelic is usually there to influence the sound of a consonant ( as is the case also in English with CH, SH, TH etc. ), sometimes also forcing the whole character pair to be silent. The word 'ithidh' you gave illustrates this nicely. The 'th' is pronounced something like H, 'dh' is silent.
You cannot possibly have any serious reason to believe that 'ithidh' has any similarity with any word in the VMS.