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+--- Thread: Repetition of words (/thread-4944.html)
RE: Repetition of words - Mauro - 02-11-2025
I imagine the pain St. Thomas Aquinas had to endure when he wrote his Summa Theologica with such a limited vocabulary...
RE: Repetition of words - Kaybo - 02-11-2025
(02-11-2025, 04:40 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I imagine the pain St. Thomas Aquinas had to endure when he wrote his Summa Theologica with such a limited vocabulary...
Just to clarify for myself, the voynich transcript has a lot of different words. More than usually used in Latin? I am mean the whole text has 8000 different words according to forum.
RE: Repetition of words - Mauro - 02-11-2025
(02-11-2025, 08:30 PM)Kaybo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(02-11-2025, 04:40 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I imagine the pain St. Thomas Aquinas had to endure when he wrote his Summa Theologica with such a limited vocabulary...
Just to clarify for myself, the voynich transcript has a lot of different words. More than usually used in Latin? I am mean the whole text has 8000 different words according to forum.
The VMS (*) has 38411 words (**) in total, and 8424 unique words (***), that is to say 1 word type every ~4.56 word tokens. This is just a slightly higher percentage than for instance Caesar's De Bello Gallico (1 word type every ~4.67 word tokens). And consider De Bello Gallico is a much longer text (~51000 word tokens in total), and with longer texts the percentage of unique word types is expected to decrease. I'd rather say De Bello Gallico is slightly more varied in 'vocabulary' than the VMS, if any.
(*) Rf1a-n transcription, words with question marks removed
(**) word tokens
(***) word types
RE: Repetition of words - Jorge_Stolfi - 03-11-2025
(02-11-2025, 10:08 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The VMS (*) has 38411 words (**) in total, and 8424 unique words (***), that is to say 1 word type every ~4.56 word tokens. This is just a slightly higher percentage than for instance Caesar's De Bello Gallico (1 word type every ~4.67 word tokens).
If a language follows Zipf's law, the token/lexeme ratio in a sample cannot be a constant. As the number N of tokens (word occurrences) in a sample increases, the number M of lexemes (distinct words) grows like K*sqrt(N). More precisely like K*N**b where b is typically between 0.4 and 0.6. This formula is known as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
So, when comparing the VMS lexicon size to that of other languages, it is important to use samples with the same number of tokens.
Assuming the exponent b is 0.5 for both languages, the interesting language parameter (independent of sample size) is K = M/sqrt(N), not M/N.
All the best, --stolfi
All the best
RE: Repetition of words - Mauro - 03-11-2025
(03-11-2025, 08:13 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If a language follows Zipf's law, the token/lexeme ratio in a sample cannot be a constant. As the number N of tokens (word occurrences) in a sample increases, the number M of lexemes (distinct words) grows like K*sqrt(N). More precisely like K*N**b where b is typically between 0.4 and 0.6. This formula is known as You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
So, when comparing the VMS lexicon size to that of other languages, it is important to use samples with the same number of tokens.
Assuming the exponent b is 0.5 for both languages, the interesting language parameter (independent of sample size) is K = M/sqrt(N), not M/N.
Thank you, I didn't know about Heaps' law.
RE: Repetition of words - Rafal - 03-11-2025
Actually there is a big arictle on Wikipedia about repeated words in different languages:
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I would say that repeated words are quite common but rather not in European languages. They are often used to mean plural case.
RE: Repetition of words - pjburkshire - 27-02-2026
I think some of the cases of double or repeated words may be instructions.
Chop, chop, chop.
Grind, grind, grind.
Stir, Stir, Stir.
Boil, boil, boil.
As noted before, they didn't have clocks. They couldn't say, "Boil for 3 minutes."
If this is the case then these double or repeated words may be more likely to be verbs than nouns or filler. I think a single word repeated is more likely to be an instruction indicating a time duration for the task being described than a prayer. I would expect a prayer to repeat phrases or similar phrases and not just one word. Unless that word is, "Mercy, mercy, mercy!"
RE: Repetition of words - JoJo_Jost - 27-02-2026
Even in normal languages, repeating words can create meaningful sentences, even if, as in VMS, 5 words are repeated:
German: Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach / When flies fly behind flies, flies fly flies after
10 repetitions: English: James, where John had had 'had had', had had 'had'; 'had had' had had the teacher's approval
But Words with two letters (or or or)? Yes, Possible in Bavarian:
“Der Mo mo mo.”
→ The man might mow.
Mo = man
mo = mag/möchte (Bavarian for “to like”)
mo = mähen (Bavarian for “to mow”)
RE: Repetition of words - Aga Tentakulus - 27-02-2026
(27-02-2026, 10:36 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.German: Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach / When flies fly behind flies, flies fly flies after
Falsch: Es heisst:
Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach.
Wenn hinter Roben Roben roben, roben Roben Roben nach.
Wenn hinter Spinnen Spinnen spinnen, .................................
RE: Repetition of words - JoJo_Jost - 27-02-2026
@ Aga I want 5 Repetitions
as VMS. but u can use ist with 6...