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Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - Printable Version

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RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 28-08-2025

(28-08-2025, 12:11 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Also, there are 13 months here, with some kind of Jaber-something between January and February, or maybe one name overwritten over the other. Maybe a mistake? Could someone read these month names?

I think this is due to the lunar cycles. Sometime we have twice full moon in the same month.

And yes, I read the month's names (I already posted them in the Koen's month name colletion thread You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). Months are:

janer
fabrer
marts
abril
maig
juy' (there is a dot over the y, nowadays it is juny, "ny" is pronounced as the spanish ñ)
juliol
agost (twice)
satembr (the horizontal line may indicate the the final e is missing, so it should be satembre)
octubre
noembr (again the horizontal line, this should be noembre)
desembr (again, the horizontal line may indicate the e is missing, desembre)

There are 19 tables in the manuscript. I attach here the links. The circles appear also in some hour and day values.

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to...
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There also different tables like this one:

[Image: 5Ge2gRQ.png]

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - oshfdk - 28-08-2025

Could punts be degrees of arc? Mean values don't make much sense unless「 is for negative numbers and L denotes 50 and then it's showing between approximately -90 and 90 degrees. (For comparison, the mean for hours is 13.08, which is very consistent with a random set of points from a 24 hours clock.)

   

(28-08-2025, 12:25 PM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.agost (twice)

Maybe you are reading some other table, I'm referring to the table (not the chart) from this post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I see something extra between January and February there, but only one August.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 28-08-2025

(28-08-2025, 12:31 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe you are reading some other table, I'm referring to the table (not the chart) from this post: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Yes, sorry, the table in Koen's thread is another one (I attach below). You can check the links of the tables (a total of 19), where some months are repeated, and I think it is due to the lunar cycles that repeat in the month. In fact the book talks about the lune cycles and about... horses and mules and when to treat them from illnesses according to the moon cycles.

"punts" (points), as I have read in internet, used to be quarters of an hour, the smallest part of the hour indicated in this book.

[Image: TbHSnsi.png]

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - oshfdk - 28-08-2025

(28-08-2025, 12:43 PM)quimqu Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, sorry, the table in Koen's thread is another one (I attach below). You can check the links of the tables (a total of 19), where some months are repeated, and I think it is due to the lunar cycles that repeat in the month. In fact the book talks about the lune cycles and about... horses and mules and when to treat them from illnesses according to the moon cycles.

"punts" (points), as I have read in internet, used to be quarters of an hour, the smallest part of the hour indicated in this book.

Thanks!

This one seems to partially confirm that o denotes 4 characters of the same type, but it's missing here over many IIII's, and present over XXXIX. So, even with an intruding I there will be o.

Maybe the last column could be minutes, if L and「 are for "half to" and "quarter to" kinds of things.

Is there also a "nulla" for zeroth hour?

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - quimqu - 28-08-2025

Well, here the instructions:

[Image: n0FVuzt.jpeg]

Which can be read as:

E per saber e donar bos ho entanent vos posare asi arreu les taules dels mesos de tot lany del concorrent qui son xviiiiº taules quadescuna asenyalada de son concorrent. E lo concorrent que cu volras de lany que troberas gireras i serraras la taula de haquel nombre de concorrent que tu volras. E aquí tu trobaras lo mes he lo dia he les hores e los punts ques girera la luna. E com auras acabades totes les dites xviiiiº taules torna al cap primer cada vegada que cabades les auras.

Which means approximatelly:

And in order to understand it well, I will place here the tables of the months for the whole year of the “concorrent” (1), which are 19 tables (2), each marked with its own concorrent. And the concorrent that you wish for the year you are looking at, you will turn and close the table corresponding to that number of concorrent. And here you will find the month, the day, the hours, and the points (3) through which the Moon will turn. And when you have finished all the said 19 tables, return to the first one each time you have completed them.

I put it through IA and told me:

(1) concorrent – a number indicating the position of the year within a lunar cycle; used to select the correct table for lunar calculations.
(2) 19 tables – each corresponds to a different concorrent; likely part of a cyclical system to align lunar months with the solar year.
(3) points – small fractions of an hour (often 1/4 hour, like 15 minutes) used to specify the exact moment of a lunar phase.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - Rafal - 28-08-2025

Sorry for coming late to the party but I spotted one thing:

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Doesn't it look like a Voynichese "a" to you ?

And do I believe correctly that in this chart it's actually "V" meaning 5, just upside down?

If we assume that Voynichese letters are actually a kind of numbers then slightly obfuscated "V" would make a lot of sense.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - oshfdk - 28-08-2025

(28-08-2025, 01:34 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And do I believe correctly that in this chart it's actually "V" meaning 5, just upside down?

Yes, just to clarify, it's not the glyph that is upside down, it's a quite normal V, the whole number is upside down.

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - R. Sale - 28-08-2025

It's quite interesting, but it seems to have many differences with the VMs. Check out the Gemini representation in the second image above [Post #30] in the Zodiac circle in the lower right. Maybe two heads are better. <And four doodads.>

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - MarcoP - 28-08-2025

(28-08-2025, 12:31 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I see something extra between January and February there, but only one August.

It seems the scribe started with:
Janer Fabrer Marts Abril

Then corrected into (he didn't expect January to occur twice):
Janer Janeer Fabrer Marts Abril

The top parts of letters A.b.l are still visible in Marts.

   

RE: Catalan Zodiac Rose S.XV - GreyCat - 31-08-2025

(12-08-2025, 03:17 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you know the translation of "sar" or "sat" from the following words:
Could it stand for "star"?
I'm about 80% sure that sarbelas is Catalan/occitan for cerebellum. Just trying to find a source.