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+--- Thread: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac (/thread-4362.html)
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - Bernd - 05-01-2025
(05-01-2025, 07:18 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But ( of all things ) the missing of the first two months would be a big coincidence.Why exactly?
I would say the zodiac appears as probably the most recognizable imagery in the VM. If you wanted an authority like Kircher to assess or translate an unreadable text, why not send him what looks like the first 2 months of the zodiac? Better than some weird plants or naked nymphs. Does the binding give any hints about missing folios at the place where the missing months would have been?
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - bi3mw - 05-01-2025
(05-01-2025, 10:31 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:But ( of all things ) the missing of the first two months would be a big coincidence.Why exactly?
I would say the zodiac appears as probably the most recognizable imagery in the VM. If you wanted an authority like Kircher to assess or translate an unreadable text, why not send him what looks like the first 2 months of the zodiac? Better than some weird plants or naked nymphs.
I would “broaden” a selection for Kircher instead of simply taking the first two pages of the zodiac. Of course, we don't know how unambiguous these pages might have looked.
(05-01-2025, 10:31 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does the binding give any hints about missing folios at the place where the missing months would have been?
That's a good question. I would be interested in that too.
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - nablator - 05-01-2025
(05-01-2025, 10:31 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does the binding give any hints about missing folios at the place where the missing months would have been?
Of course it does: f. 74 is missing.
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RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - ReneZ - 06-01-2025
(05-01-2025, 06:52 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't it codicalogically likely that the two missing months were removed later though? We know that many folios of the MS are missing.
(Excitingly, this would mean that there could be a Voynich aquarius in some archive).
The question about the calendar is really why it starts with March.
Or why the whatever-it-is starts with Pisces.
We also know that there are plenty of zodiac cycles in other manuscripts that are incomplete.
It is even entirely possible to have an incomplete cycle, without missing pages, in case the cycle was copied from an incomplete original.
The start with Pisces is not so easy to explain, as it is not the result of 'something missing'. I agree that this is the more interesting point.
The number of possible explanations of this is quite wide and remains speculation.
The first level of speculation should be: is this intentional or not?
Here, I think we are on safe grounds, as there are several progressions in the cycle that make this likely.
With respect to the missing end, not only is a folio missing after the last sign, this folio (74) was cut out of the bound book.
There definitely was something there. There are still cut marks on f75.
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - nablator - 06-01-2025
(06-01-2025, 12:23 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The start with Pisces is not so easy to explain, as it is not the result of 'something missing'. I agree that this is the more interesting point.
Easter was New Year's Day in most (if not all) of France: the day when the year changed in dates.
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Easter could be in March or April.
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In case it was in March, the month started in Pisces. It was not uncommon to illustrate calendars with the Zodiac sign at the start of the month.
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - BessAgritianin - 06-01-2025
Voynich Calender starts with Aquarius, which is f57v, as previously translated and proofed.
But another confirmation for the disbelievers may be found in foil 67r1.
Take a look at the starting point of the moon masons - the same word - "VADOL" or Aquarius as a staring point.
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - R. Sale - 06-01-2025
So those are moon mansions? And all this time I thought that they were just poorly drawn versions of a rectangular quatrefoil.
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RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - Koen G - 06-01-2025
(06-01-2025, 01:01 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In case it was in March, the month started in Pisces. It was not uncommon to illustrate calendars with the Zodiac sign at the start of the month.
Would it be weird to make a parchment calendar that's only good for a single year?
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - nablator - 06-01-2025
(06-01-2025, 08:13 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(06-01-2025, 01:01 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In case it was in March, the month started in Pisces. It was not uncommon to illustrate calendars with the Zodiac sign at the start of the month.
Would it be weird to make a parchment calendar that's only good for a single year?
It's the VM. Weird is normal.
RE: Missing Constellations in VM Zodiac - ReneZ - 06-01-2025
(06-01-2025, 04:54 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Take a look at the starting point of the moon masons - the same word - "VADOL" or Aquarius as a staring point.
If you translate dairal as aquarius, how would you translate okeodaly ?