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+--- Thread: The claimed Voynich page (/thread-1230.html)
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Bernd - 11-03-2026
I do believe a projection like the use of a camera lucida is the most likely explanation for the distortion involved. It is hard to reconcile with copying from a computer screen. A more modern possibility would be the use of an overhead projector and a transparent copy of the VM page. As mentioned, the copy is smaller (how much in percent?) than the original. I missed that, so we can rule out a direct overlay copy from the VM. However, I guess an overlay copy of an imperfect and tilted photo printed to a smaller size would also be possible.
In any case, I don't see how such a copy could have been accomplished in Baresch or Kircher's life time but I might be wrong. There is the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., arguing that painters from the Renaissance onward used projections by optical aids like lenses or mirrors to paint life-like scenes, but it appears controversial and not well accepted. So far I'd say evidence points more to a 20th (or even 21th?) century post-Voynich origin of Fabrizio's copy. But I wouldn't call the evidence conclusive yet.
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Koen G - 11-03-2026
Fabrizio, is this summary of the provenance correct?
- A buyer of antique furniture buys a wardrobe at an antiques fair in Narni.
- The wardrobe contains a mix of old documents.
- The buyer contacts you spontaneously to ask if you are interested in any of the documents.
- You buy the parchment and he sends it to you.
- You had the pigments tested and they contain some components that might be modern (not sure about this, Rene wrote this on the forum 10 years ago).
I am curious about this fascinating object, and like Rene I am convinced that you are honest and genuinely believe in it. Might I ask how you knew the seller? Why did he decide to contact you - were you known as a collector? Were you interested in the Voynich manuscript before, or manuscripts in general? Do you think the seller's story of the wardrobe is 100% reliable?
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Fabrizio Salani - 11-03-2026
(11-03-2026, 02:24 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Fabrizio, is this summary of the provenance correct?Yes the steps are correct. I met this seller because I have been collecting antique prints as a hobby for 30 years, (among the most important finds: The parchment print of Raphael's "Madonna of the Fish" of which there are only two copies in the world, mine included, and the one from the English collection was exhibited at Yale Univ. during the exhibition of Marcantonio Raimondi's parchment engravings, the "Salani sheet" so defined by the MIBACT, the only known copy of "The Rescue of Moses" taken from a work by Paolo Caliari known as "Il Veronese" is the oldest known print of the subject; a gold-ground illuminated initial, dating back to the second half of the 14th century, which represents St. Michael in the ancient Byzantine connotation, without archangel wings but with court dignitary's clothes and the scales for weighing souls (psychostasy), with his feet on a grotesque representing the devil, the very rare woodcut by A. Durer "Cain killing Abel", I cite (Just a few of the most important ones). I frequent art fairs, museums, and antiquarian bookshops throughout Italy and France, and by doing so I meet many people—collectors, antique dealers, booksellers, etc.—who contact me when they have something they think might interest me.
- A buyer of antique furniture buys a wardrobe at an antiques fair in Narni.
- The wardrobe contains a mix of old documents.
- The buyer contacts you spontaneously to ask if you are interested in any of the documents.
- You buy the parchment and he sends it to you.
- You had the pigments tested and they contain some components that might be modern (not sure about this, Rene wrote this on the forum 10 years ago).
I am curious about this fascinating object, and like Rene I am convinced that you are honest and genuinely believe in it. Might I ask how you knew the seller? Why did he decide to contact you - were you known as a collector? Were you interested in the Voynich manuscript before, or manuscripts in general? Do you think the seller's story of the wardrobe is 100% reliable?
- Regarding analyses in the UNIMORE laboratories, tests (Raman spectroscopy and X-ray) revealed (but only on X-ray) minimal titanium Ti contamination, only in a few areas of the green, which for the majority of the findings is ultramarine blue (lapis lazuli), contamination or late watercolor overpainting. The seal and glue were found to be organic in nature.
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Rafal - 11-03-2026
Quote:[*]A buyer of antique furniture buys a wardrobe at an antiques fair in Narni.
The wardrobe contains a mix of old documents.
Fabrizio, and did you see that wardrobe and another documents? Do you know who was the last owner of the wardrobe?
I wonder if your seller wasn't building some legend
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Koen G - 11-03-2026
Thanks! Do you think there is any chance that someone, perhaps through a third party, might intentionally "plant" this parchment with you? That your reputation made you a target as someone who would be (rightfully so) interested in this object, be able to connect it to the VM, and raise awareness about it?
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Fabrizio Salani - 11-03-2026
This document was put up for auction, but I only learned about it years later. I'm posting it in the hope that someone can provide me with information, as I haven't found anything online. It would be interesting to know its content. I think it could be of great importance for my parchment, too.
I tried to contact the auction house in 2019 to have more information about, but never received a response (the auction was in June 2013)
Notes from Auction House
Kircher, Athanasius
Letter from ATHANASIUS KIRCHER to Lord Marcus Mari of Cronoland regarding a manuscript containing arcane notes, sent by the same, in which Athanasius Kircher attempted to reveal and bring to light the secrets of that writing, which have remained intact until today and have escaped all research.
Roma, Typis S.Cong: de propag: Fide, 1669.
Printer's mark on the title page, damp stains that in some places make the text difficult to read, non-contemporary cardboard binding, partially worn at the edges. Ex-books woodcuts on the reverse title page by Louise Freemont Albergh (Oxford) and Paul Allen Kortenbree (Amsterdam).
*.* The unsuccessful attempt by Johannes Marcus Marci and Godfried Aloys Kinner to actively involve Athanasius Kircher in the long and complex attempt to decipher the mysterious cipher manuscript, now in the Beinecke Library at Yale (MS 408), better known in the twentieth century as the Voynich Manuscript, was well known in literature. Johannes Marcus Marci, the owner of the encrypted manuscript at the time, likely sent Kircher a copy or even the original
(according to Kinner's hypothesis) so that the great scholar could attempt to decipher it, given the Jesuit's universal fame for deciphering ancient hieroglyphics and unknown languages. In 1667, G. Aloys Kinner apparently wrote to Kircherasking him if he had succeeded in deciphering the parchment code.
Until now, however, there was no evidence that Kircher had in any wayworked on deciphering the manuscript (which remains completely obscure to this day), nor that he had ever responded to Marci's various requests .... This extremely rare pamphlet, whose existence was unknown, and which has remained in the private collections of Freemont Albergh (1876) and Kortenbree (1976), confirms the Geisa scholar's interest in the entire story and his repeated, unsuccessful attempts to decipher it. From reading it, we learn that Kircher was unsuccessful in his attempt, despite his fame and great erudition. Some analyses of the encrypted manuscript, which We recall written in an unknown alphabet, reported by Kircher in this letter to Johannes Marci, however, suggest that the Jesuit may have identified a possible interpretation. However, his advanced age (he died in Rome on November 28, 1680) may have somewhat hindered his attempts to continue studying the manuscript.
It is absent from the consulted bibliographies and from national or international libraries, including the Joost Ritman Library (Bibiiotheca Philosophica Hermetica in Amsterdam).
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Fabrizio Salani - 11-03-2026
(11-03-2026, 03:39 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The seller, whom I had known for years, was an elderly gentleman with a great knowledge of antique furniture and a restorer, who passed away years ago. The parchment was mixed in with what I thought was a collection of paper documents and parchments spanning the 16th to 18th centuries (notarial deeds, property transfers, inheritances, boundaries, various letters, many with seals of various types), and it seemed to me that the whole thing had been collected more for the seals than for the information on the sheets. I didn't ask to see the piece of furniture because I have absolutely no knowledge of antique furniture, ceramics, ivory, silver, or carpets.Quote:[*]A buyer of antique furniture buys a wardrobe at an antiques fair in Narni.
The wardrobe contains a mix of old documents.
Fabrizio, and did you see that wardrobe and another documents? Do you know who was the last owner of the wardrobe?
I wonder if your seller wasn't building some legend
RE: The claimed Voynich page - Fabrizio Salani - 11-03-2026
(11-03-2026, 03:43 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks! Do you think there is any chance that someone, perhaps through a third party, might intentionally "plant" this parchment with you? That your reputation made you a target as someone who would be (rightfully so) interested in this object, be able to connect it to the VM, and raise awareness about it?Honestly, I have no enemies, and I don't know who would do this to me, or why. If one day it turns out to be a modern copy, that's fine, no problem. It was a wonderful adventure to tell my grandchildren about.
RE: The claimed Voynich page - MarcoP - 11-03-2026
(11-03-2026, 03:59 PM)Fabrizio Salani Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This document was put up for auction, but I only learned about it years later. I'm posting it in the hope that someone can provide me with information, as I haven't found anything online. It would be interesting to know its content. I think it could be of great importance for my parchment, too.
I tried to contact the auction house in 2019 to have more information about, but never received a response (the auction was in June 2013)
"Ad dominum Marcum Marci Cronolandensem Epistula de manuscripto..." was a fake made as a joke and/or to promote a business. Massimo Gatta takes responsibility for it in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (p.168, footnote 38):
Quote:Quale cultore degli pseudobiblia anni fa creai, con l’amicale collaborazione di Fabio Massimo Bertolo, direttore allora della casa d’aste Minerva Auctions di Roma, un ‘falso’ storico in forma di opuscolo attribuito a Kircher, nel quale era presente una lettera da lui inviata appunto a Marcus Marci, nella quale gli indicava le proprie considerazioni in merito al codice ricevuto, compresa una sua teoria ermeneutica.
È noto, al contrario, che il celebre gesuita non rispose mai alle richieste che gli giunsero da Praga in merito al codice. Il nostro ‘falso’ aveva il chilometrico titolo Ad dominum Marcus Marci Cronolandensem Epistula de manuscripto notis arcanis exarato ab eodem misso, in qua secreta illius scriptionis usque ad praenses tempus inviolata omnibusque investigationibus elapsa aperire atque in lucem proferre conatus est Athanasius Kircher, Roma, Typis S. Congr. de propag. Fide, 1669. Minerva Auctions 2013; Gatta 2008; Gatta 2009; Gatta 2010; Gatta 2013;
Gatta 2015.
Machine Translation:
As a devotee of pseudobiblia, some years ago I created, with the friendly collaboration of Fabio Massimo Bertolo, director at the time of the auction house Minerva Auctions in Rome, a historical 'forgery' in the form of a pamphlet attributed to Kircher, in which there was a letter supposedly sent by him to Marcus Marci, in which he set out his own thoughts regarding the manuscript he had received, including his hermeneutic theory concerning it.
It is well known, on the contrary, that the celebrated Jesuit never replied to the requests that reached him from Prague regarding the manuscript. Our 'forgery' bore the kilometrically long title Ad dominum Marcus Marci Cronolandensem Epistula de manuscripto notis arcanis exarato ab eodem misso, in qua secreta illius scriptionis usque ad praesens tempus inviolata omnibusque investigationibus elapsa aperire atque in lucem proferre conatus est Athanasius Kircher, Rome, Typis S. Congr. de propag. Fide, 1669.
Minerva Auctions 2013; Gatta 2008; Gatta 2009; Gatta 2010; Gatta 2013; Gatta 2015."
I remember the episode, because when it was announced I believed it was authentic.... I think we discussed this on the forum, but I cannot find the old posts at the moment.
RE: The claimed Voynich page - eggyk - 11-03-2026
(11-03-2026, 12:42 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As mentioned, the copy is smaller (how much in percent?) than the original.
Although I am relatively confident that I measured/calculated the sizes with the given measurements + pixel counts roughly correct, it would put my mind at ease if someone else were to re-check to make sure I haven't made any obvious mistakes.
Now that Fabrizio has given the dimensions of the copy parchment, it's much more possible.