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15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html) +--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html) +--- Thread: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? (/thread-3643.html) |
RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Jorge_Stolfi - 08-06-2026 (07-06-2026, 02:20 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From a purely archeological perspective, the late 15th century was still a golden age of castle-building, whereas many castles were converted to civilian residences after the mid-16th century, as if something had convinced poeple that the newly found peace was there to stay. Or maybe people realized that castles no longer had military utility, given the advances in artillery. All the best, --stolfi RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Pierre Dumont Himself - 08-06-2026 It does look like there's an extra "arc" of depictions outside the range of castles. I've added Noli and Gorizia. The tower of Noli stands out because it might represent the western edge of the merlons' distribution in Liguria. Albenga almost certainly lacked them, and all the church frescoes between Albenga and Nice show Guelph merlons. I also can't seem to find any in the mountians between Liguria and the Piemonte. I'll have another look at the Castello di Avio after I'm done with the Piemonte. I already have two more identifications in that area. I'm against adding Rene's castle because the dating of the manuscript is uncertain and Otto Piper argues that merlons found exclusively on the keep tend to be later decorative additions. For the sake of comparison, here's a 1457 map of castles near Chieri, all showing swallowtail merlons. I'm not yet convinced that we should include them. ![]() You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Aga Tentakulus - 08-06-2026 That's right. After the walls came the ramparts—star-shaped city walls. Take Frankfurt, for example. The advantage is that when the ramparts are bombarded by cannon fire, the material slides down from above to fill the gap, whereas with a wall, a hole forms and the wall collapses onto itself. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Pierre Dumont Himself - 08-06-2026 (08-06-2026, 10:04 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's true, and some castles were simply abandoned. What's fascinating, however, is that many were transformed into opulent residences, while new, undefended Renaissance palaces were constructed outside city walls.(07-06-2026, 02:20 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From a purely archeological perspective, the late 15th century was still a golden age of castle-building, whereas many castles were converted to civilian residences after the mid-16th century, as if something had convinced poeple that the newly found peace was there to stay. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Mauro - 08-06-2026 (08-06-2026, 10:20 AM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(08-06-2026, 10:04 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's true, and some castles were simply abandoned. What's fascinating, however, is that many were transformed into opulent residences, while new, undefended Renaissance palaces were constructed outside city walls.(07-06-2026, 02:20 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From a purely archeological perspective, the late 15th century was still a golden age of castle-building, whereas many castles were converted to civilian residences after the mid-16th century, as if something had convinced poeple that the newly found peace was there to stay. A rule-of-thumb to determine if a castle was built with a military or a civilian scope is to look if it has You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Pierre Dumont Himself - 08-06-2026 A couple of corrections: 1. In San Giorio, it is the casaforte that has swallowtail merlons, not the castle, which has Guelph merlons. The casaforte is right where the road forks, and the castle is at the end of the left road. ![]() Confirmation: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 2. According to Augusto Cavallari Murat's book "Tra Serra d'Ivrea, Orco e Po",pages 173-7, the fresco in the Palazzo Vescovile of Ivrea was only made in the sixteenth century. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I will reproduce the whole section, because it's relevant: Quote:Racimolati frescanti ancora nel solco neogotico a fine Quattrocento. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Dobri - 09-06-2026 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the Ghibelline battlements seem to be a later addition though. ![]() You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Pierre Dumont Himself - 09-06-2026 ![]() 17th century according to Italian Wikipedia, quoting Carlo Perogalli, Enzo Pifferi e Angelo Contino, Castelli in Lombardia, which I believe to be the main reference work for castles in Lombardy. Castello di Bornato has swallowtails of a different material on top of the old merlons. ![]() On a related note, please let me know if you can get your hands on this book or one of the following: M. Merlo, Castelli, rocche, case-forti, torri della Provincia di Pavia, Pavia, 1971. M. Viglino Davico, I ricetti del Piemonte, Torino 1979. Tito Miotti, Castelli del Friuli (multiples volumes) Publications for each region/province from the Atlante castellano (ongoing project) Volumes for each region/province by the Istituto Italiano dei Castelli (ongoing) E. Pagella, E. Rossetti Brezzi e E. Castelnuovo. Corti e città. Arte del Quattrocento nelle Alpi occidentali. Oswald Trapp: Tiroler Burgenbuch (8 volumes) Johanna Thali, Schrift als Bild. Wolfram-Studien XIX (article) By hte way, it would be absolutely priceless if someone could contact Enrico Lusso and make him interested in the VM. @MarcoP, @Koen G. Not only is he the leading authority on castles in NW Italy, he also studies the history of cities in the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, and has many collaborators. He should also be able to talk about arts, religion and literacy in this particular time period. RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 09-06-2026 (09-06-2026, 08:36 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By hte way, it would be absolutely priceless if someone could contact Enrico Lusso and make him interested in the VM. @MarcoP, @Koen G. Not only is he the leading authority on castles in NW Italy, he also studies the history of cities in the Late Medieval and Early Modern periods, and has many collaborators. He should also be able to talk about arts, religion and literacy in this particular time period. This is worth a shot, though looking at his list of publications, I suspect it may be the best to contact him in Italian. Maybe our map and its purpose would interest him? RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Pierre Dumont Himself - 09-06-2026 I think it might. But since he also studies the "inhabited landscape", you should also tell him wer're trying to understand the conditions in which the manuscript might have been created. For instance, could the literate sheep-raising community that produced the manuscript survive unmolested for a couple of decades in the early 15th century Piemonte? There were so many civil wars, foreign interventions, peasant rebellions, etc. that even small towns and some villages acquired strong defensive fortifications. One contemporary document I came across said that "every person was killed and every building ourtside the walls of X town was razed to the ground", and this seems to have been a relatively common occurrence. |