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+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Monica Yokubinas - 31-05-2019
(31-05-2019, 10:27 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, I'm sorry, I don't buy it.
On 17r, mallier is written in completely normal 15th-century Gothic-style medieval letters. It doesn't include any VMS glyphs. There DOES appear to be a VMS glyph farther towards the right of the line where the text is fading.
...
I will agree that there are VMS glyphs at the beginning of 116v fourth line, but not on the first or second lines. Those are also completely normal 15th-century medieval letters (also Gothic style).
It's not the letters that are hard to interpret (except a couple of the messy ones), they are normal and most are common, it's the spelling and grammar that are unusual. Even the spelling is not super unusual (spelling varied greatly in the medieval period), but the combinations of words is not common (and not grammatical).
Misspoke on the Malayalam, need to clean up notes it is a Sanskrit letter and possibly speaking of the Rolang after. but back to your interpretation. So if all the letters are 15th century medieval letters. What is the interpretation of the sentences?
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 31-05-2019
They're not grammatical and the words are from different language groups.
- The top line is Germanic in structure.
- The second and third lines are Romance in structure.
- The fourth line includes two VMS tokens and the rest is Germanic in structure, with the last part in readable German, except that the grammar is odd.
I'm not saying it is a charm, but the format of the text is quite similar to medieval charms/incantations. They usually have a malady at the top, followed by three or four lines of incantations or instructions, often with plus signs (crosses) between words where the person saying the chant genuflects.
RE: 116v - Monica Yokubinas - 01-06-2019
(31-05-2019, 11:42 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They're not grammatical and the words are from different language groups.
If it's a charm or incantation, it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to include power words (abracadabra is one that is common and very ancient, so is Adonai).
- The top line is Germanic in structure.
- The second and third lines are Romance in structure.
- The fourth line includes two VMS tokens and the rest is Germanic in structure, with the last part in readable German, except that the grammar is odd.
I'm not saying it is a charm, but the format of the text is quite similar to medieval charms/incantations. They usually have a malady at the top, followed by three or four lines of incantations or instructions, often with plus signs (crosses) between words where the person saying the chant genuflects.
So basically what you are saying is everyone agrees it is Germanic, Romantic, VMS tokens, more Germanic... and yet No one can read it. So technically it is coded... Correct? The reason I am adamant on what I have so far, and why, and I'll try to put in a nutshell, and forgive me if i come across as arrogant, but i have a hard time relating or breaking down theories to another. Character flaw of mine, a type of asperger's syndrome, but here goes...
I have been consistent in my methodology for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a pitcher plant and here is the translation:
Evil basket of sweeps up then fierce befall, beauty fierce owl my own God, caused to fly nourish. Dew to sweep, my own God of to have a value, value long live, long live lord of proper deceit. Merely a basket that befall, scoop willing adorned mouth, belly/stomach vine of refuge to crush to pieces. Form strength scoop in, sweep marvel, scoop life of firepot creative to trample basket toil, to devour, wrap another thing, sweep belly to churn up cometh from, long live spin desire. Lord cometh from chief God to consume by drinking, due season, long live spin of dew to sweep.
Dew to sweep like head scoop in, scoop then wrap around another thing, enter valley at that time God Lord appeasing to sweep mouth God spin. Restraint to sweep pure gold, market stall arsenic, firepot spin owl, living meat to long for, long live turban / head dress toil to sweep to crush. Fierceness beauty to gather, another owl, if not creeping thing, then God saves. Lord to sweep then long live cradle owl, long live of like long live then prevent insects to spin, long life of grandmother, life to spin of silent mischief. and workup You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Now i will repeat ad nauseum, this is not the Hebrew language, but i utilize the root system of Hebrew to gain an understanding of an unknown semitic language. It is not perfect, but it does give a glimpse into the language spoken, and this describes a pitcher plant.
Other pages like the 9 rosette folio speak of Necromancy, scrying, prostitution, abortion and many other dark subject matter. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. this book is not what people think it is. Whilst researching on the 9 rosette folio during translation, I came across some banned/destroyed books of the middle ages. I put them aside in reference until a few months ago when i started to look at the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. pages with the cryptic lettering. It has taken me months just to get a small glimpse of what is being conveyed.
Look again at the glyph after the UM on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it is the yay Voynich glyph meaning to sweep. So far i have "in order to sweep the breath ______ _____ Ro_____ (possible reference to the Tibetan word Rolang meaning corpse to rise up) with the Sanskrit glyph. Still working on this. This page also has red eyes bleeding in the root system. I'll work on translating the page in the next few days, but I have been concentrating on the last passage of coded messages.
I added to the thread about the star charts and figured out why they did not match, so please go back and have a look, and i will leave it at that. Have a great night.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 01-06-2019
(01-06-2019, 01:43 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I have been consistent in my methodology for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a pitcher plant and here is the translation:
...
I don't think it looks like a pitcher plant (in fact, I think I know what plant it is), but if it is a pitcher plant, then are you saying the VMS (or the VMS plants) originated in tropical Asia or Madagascar?
(01-06-2019, 01:43 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Look again at the glyph after the UM on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it is the yay Voynich glyph meaning to sweep. So far i have "in order to sweep the breath ______ _____ Ro_____ (possible reference to the Tibetan word Rolang meaning corpse to rise up) with the Sanskrit glyph. Still working on this. This page also has red eyes bleeding in the root system. I'll work on translating the page in the next few days, but I have been concentrating on the last passage of coded messages.
...
How can I do that when there is no UM on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ? It says mallier in normal Gothic script. I'm not sure how you can read "m" + double-chamber "a" (ma) as "um".
RE: 116v - Monica Yokubinas - 01-06-2019
(01-06-2019, 02:00 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-06-2019, 01:43 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I have been consistent in my methodology for example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a pitcher plant and here is the translation:
...
I don't think it looks like a pitcher plant (in fact, I think I know what plant it is), but if it is a pitcher plant, then are you saying the VMS (or the VMS plants) originated in tropical Asia or Madagascar?
amazing what we all think we know... never stop learning. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(01-06-2019, 01:43 AM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Look again at the glyph after the UM on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it is the yay Voynich glyph meaning to sweep. So far i have "in order to sweep the breath ______ _____ Ro_____ (possible reference to the Tibetan word Rolang meaning corpse to rise up) with the Sanskrit glyph. Still working on this. This page also has red eyes bleeding in the root system. I'll work on translating the page in the next few days, but I have been concentrating on the last passage of coded messages.
...
How can I do that when there is no UM on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ? It says mallier in normal Gothic script. I'm not sure how you can read "m" + double-chamber "a" (ma) as "um".
you would know best, so i will leave it to you to seek. Have a great evening
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 01-06-2019
There is no "UM" at the beginning of this word on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :
RE: 116v - Koen G - 01-06-2019
Guys please keep this thread on topic, do start a new thread if needed.
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 01-06-2019
The complication, Koen, is that the text on 17r is probably the same handwriting as 116v. I was looking back at the thread and trying to figure out a good place to split it, but then parts of it don't make sense.
Monica combined discussion of 116v text in the same post as the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. pitcher plant and as the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. text (post #423), so splitting it to a 6r thread (maybe one already exists?) would mean breaking it in the middle of a post. I don't know if you want to do that.
I would prefer to see the plant discussion in a 6r thread, but I leave it up to you (and Monica).
RE: 116v - Koen G - 01-06-2019
The plant ID can be discussed here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
On the topic of the marginalia handwriting, the messed up "a" still bothers me. I get is that it looks like they made a two-story "a" from a one-story "a" or the other way around, but the lines just don't make sense to me. Especially since the second story looks more like they drew an inverted "p".
RE: 116v - -JKP- - 01-06-2019
The first half of the 15th century was a transitional period for quite a few things.
This may not explain the "a", but it's something to consider...
- In the very late 14th century and early 15th century, they were switching from double-story to single-story "a" and many scribes wrote it both ways in the same line.
- By the late 15th century, the double-story a was mostly obsolete for handwritten texts (although the printing companies designed typestyles that included double-story a, so it never disappeared entirely).
- The same with numbers, they were switching from the old style of Indic-Arabic numbers to the modern style and some scribes mixed up the two styles. The old style was almost gone by the end of the 15th century.