(30-04-2016, 11:57 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On the plant page (f18v) I was looking at the interpretations for some of the glyphs.

If I'm reading them correctly, you have interpreted the EVA-t (t) as follows:

Line 1: P, ?, b, p
Line 4: p
Line 5: B
Line 6: m, m/nim
Line 8: pl, plet (pleti, mot, moti)
Line 9: nim (pi), p


and the EVA-k (k) as follows:

Line 2: qu, qu, nic
Line 3: leg, leg, c (qu), loqu
Line 4: c, qu, c
Line 5: c, qu
Line 6: n, cret
Line 7: gn (leg), luc
Line 8: cr
Line 9: c (n, l), qu, n
Line 10: gel, cl

I've spaced out the lines a bit so it's easier to read, and given them numbers so they can be referenced:

(02-05-2016, 05:31 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher, do you have any theories or explanations about why Latin words that were very common in medieval texts, like et est qui modo tunc die ad non sic locus autem in and vel, are not included?

• In Latin, the -ris/-tis/-cis abbreviations (EVA-m, EVA-g) typically are at the ends of words (as in the VMS) but can occur almost anywhere in a sentence. They are usually somewhat spaced out in the sentence in normal Latin but, in the VMS, to take folio 80r, as an example (because it has a lot of text), there are eight that are at the ends of lines, none that are midline. There are some on other pages that are midline, but they still don't fit the same linguistic pattern as Latin, even if it's assumed that this might be poetry (with rhyme at the end).
  
• In Latin, as you've already noticed, the pre- abbreviation is very common, the pro- abbreviation not quite as frequent. In your Latin interpretation, there is a very high percentage of 4o and very few 4—a ratio that  is completely different from Latin.
  

(02-05-2016, 10:56 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A count of how many times a shape occurs is not enough. Where it is in a sentence is important. In fact, in the VMS, this is one of the most important considerations (one of the most distinctive properties of the text).

For example,

• In Latin, the -ris/-tis/-cis abbreviations (EVA-m, EVA-g) typically are at the ends of words (as in the VMS) but can occur almost anywhere in a sentence. They are usually somewhat spaced out in the sentence in normal Latin but, in the VMS, to take folio 80r, as an example (because it has a lot of text), there are eight that are at the ends of lines, none that are midline. There are some on other pages that are midline, but they still don't fit the same linguistic pattern as Latin, even if it's assumed that this might be poetry (with rhyme at the end).
  
• In Latin, as you've already noticed, the pre- abbreviation is very common, the pro- abbreviation not quite as frequent. In your Latin interpretation, there is a very high percentage of 4o and very few 4—a ratio that  is completely different from Latin.
  

I can list many more examples, but this is why I keep saying the structure of the VMS differs quite significantly from Latin, even if some of the glyph-shapes and their position are obviously derived from Latin.


Given the inconsistency of the interpretation for specific glyphs/glyph combinations, I'm still concerned you may be imposing Latin upon the text rather than letting the text reveal itself.

When the same glyph means -um one time and -us the next time and -em a third time, we need to ask whether you are simply choosing something that works rather than letting the actual meaning of the text lead you to a solution.

I'd rather ask these questions here, on the forum, where you have a friendly audience than see you throw your translation out in the wild before it's ready, or you might get skewered by some of the less friendly detractors.

(02-05-2016, 03:50 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-05-2016, 05:31 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher, do you have any theories or explanations about why Latin words that were very common in medieval texts, like et est qui modo tunc die ad non sic locus autem in and vel, are not included?

Using -Job-'s website I made a list of usual Latin prepositions, conjunctions and another frequent words which is used in the VMs.
in = o - 82 times
ad, ut, id = chd - 8 times 
et, de, te = d - 51 times (but "et" can easily be hidden in the word as the add-on "-que")
est, si = s - 244 times
vel, vino, vano = cheo, sho - 195 times
die, dei, dii = dsh - 2 times
non = op, sho (sh with "bow" superscript) - 1+++
autem, vitam, vatum = chedy, shdy - 547 times
sic = lk - 1 time

(03-05-2016, 06:10 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote pid='3814' dateline='1462200617']

Using -Job-'s website I made a list of usual Latin prepositions, conjunctions and another frequent words which is used in the VMs.
in = o - 82 times
ad, ut, id = chd - 8 times 
et, de, te = d - 51 times (but "et" can easily be hidden in the word as the add-on "-que")
est, si = s - 244 times
vel, vino, vano = cheo, sho - 195 times
die, dei, dii = dsh - 2 times
non = op, sho (sh with "bow" superscript) - 1+++
autem, vitam, vatum = chedy, shdy - 547 times
sic = lk - 1 time

(04-05-2016, 04:05 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To me, the resulting Latin text, does not make any sense and
it looks as if we can associate any language in the world exactly the same way, 
we do not need Latin for this.

(03-05-2016, 09:50 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... could be the preposition in. I suppose that some prepositions may be associated with nouns (amotione = a motione). 
Example: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. chdalchdy - likely must be chd alchdy (ad rosidum + the next word collutum) (preposition ad + accusative)
But even in this case, ad  is very rare in my deciphering 

1. Did you notice that 9 of the 10 word-tokens on the first line end in EVA-y? It would be very unusual for Latin or any natural language to do that. But let's explain it, for the moment, by saying it might be a list. It's possible.
   
2. But... did you notice that 5 of the 11 lines end in -ris/-tis/-cis and yet those common Latin abbreviations do not occur midline? That's downright weird for Latin and the explanation that maybe midline words use a different abbreviation (or spelled-out letters) doesn't work because then either 1) there are not enough shapes to make an alphabet or 2) the words midline would be longer... and they're not.
   
3. I've already mentioned that 4o (if it means pro-) occurs much too often in relation to 4 (per-). In Latin, per- is frequent and somewhat more common than pro- and yet in the VMS, if you interpret the shapes this way, per- (a very common abbreviation in Latin) happens only rarely.
   
4. On the following page (f35r) 62 of the 88 word-tokens end in Eva-y or variations of -ain. How can one account for that degree of rigidity and repetition, and how would you translate that page?
   

(04-05-2016, 11:28 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

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(03-05-2016, 09:50 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... could be the preposition in. I suppose that some prepositions may be associated with nouns (amotione = a motione). 
Example: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. chdalchdy - likely must be chd alchdy (ad rosidum + the next word collutum) (preposition ad + accusative)
But even in this case, ad  is very rare in my deciphering 

Quote:Okay, moving away from individual letters for a moment. Look carefully at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from a more global perspective...

1. Did you notice that 9 of the 10 word-tokens on the first line end in EVA-y? It would be very unusual for Latin or any natural language to do that. But let's explain it, for the moment, by saying it might be a list. It's possible.
   
2. But... did you notice that 5 of the 11 lines end in -ris/-tis/-cis and yet those common Latin abbreviations do not occur midline? That's downright weird for Latin and the explanation that maybe midline words use a different abbreviation (or spelled-out letters) doesn't work because then either 1) there are not enough shapes to make an alphabet or 2) the words midline would be longer... and they're not.
   
3. I've already mentioned that 4o (if it means pro-) occurs much too often in relation to 4 (per-). In Latin, per- is frequent and somewhat more common than pro- and yet in the VMS, if you interpret the shapes this way, per- (a very common abbreviation in Latin) happens only rarely.
   
4. On the following page (f35r) 62 of the 88 word-tokens end in Eva-y or variations of -ain. How can one account for that degree of rigidity and repetition, and how would you translate that page?