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+--- Thread: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH (/thread-5388.html)
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 01:23 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:05 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The astronomical part of the Voynich manuscript describes a comprehensive description of the workings of the universe and the overall system of the functioning of the earth as presented in the books of Enoch. This is a very complex and comprehensive model with a different model of the functioning of the world. The Enochian model is geocentric and not heliocentric.
Interesting comparison, and the visual parallel between the 12-gate system in 1 Enoch 72-82 and the circular layout on f67v2 is very striking, although I should note very far from unique. The uniqueness is using human faces as moon phases (if indeed that's what it is).
Question for you. What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe? Wikipedia says 1773, which as interesting as your theory is, makes it less tenable. Do you have sources showing an earlier source or are you suggesting that the whole manuscript was created in Ethiopia? In which case, there's rather a lot of Caucasian nymphs...
I already wrote here that the books were lost and rediscovered, but there are Vatican fragments and other clues. See the older part of the thread. I am sending my other comparison for the 12 gates.
I think the author or authors were from Europe and must have been very educated in many fields. They could have worked in a library and had access to these books there.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - DG97EEB - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 01:43 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:23 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:05 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The astronomical part of the Voynich manuscript describes a comprehensive description of the workings of the universe and the overall system of the functioning of the earth as presented in the books of Enoch. This is a very complex and comprehensive model with a different model of the functioning of the world. The Enochian model is geocentric and not heliocentric.
Interesting comparison, and the visual parallel between the 12-gate system in 1 Enoch 72-82 and the circular layout on f67v2 is very striking, although I should note very far from unique. The uniqueness is using human faces as moon phases (if indeed that's what it is).
Question for you. What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe? Wikipedia says 1773, which as interesting as your theory is, makes it less tenable. Do you have sources showing an earlier source or are you suggesting that the whole manuscript was created in Ethiopia? In which case, there's rather a lot of Caucasian nymphs...
I already wrote here that the books were lost and rediscovered, but there are Vatican fragments and other clues. See the older part of the thread. I am sending my other comparison for the 12 gates.
I think the author or authors were from Europe and must have been very educated in many fields. They could have worked in a library and had access to these books there.
I'm sorry Radim, but you wrote this yourself
"Content and "heresy": The book tells of angels (Guardians) who descended to earth, had sex with human women, and fathered giants (Nephilim), which was problematic and mystical from the point of view of the theology of the time.
Rediscovery: The entire text was rediscovered in Europe only in the 18th century (brought from Ethiopia), so in the 15th century it was a book that did not exist in Western consciousness, or was considered apocryphal (outside the canon).
In the 15th century, you would probably not have come across the 1st Book of Enoch in a regular European library or in heretical writings of the time"
You have zero transmission evidence and a completely unsubstantiated theory. Even one example in a medieval book would do. Just one
As for the visual evidence, whilst compelling in isolation, there are literally hundreds of German and Italian books (not to mention Arabic) that share these same motifs. They don't need any kind of special pleading or elaborate transmission story to work. Occam's Razor applies here, as does Hitchens's Razor.. "That which can be put forward without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence "
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Rafal - 22-02-2026
Quote:What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe?
While I am not the post author, I am personally interested a bit in Christian apocrypha and know some stuff about Enoch so let me answer.
1 Enoch and 2 Enoch are totally different things. They share the same hero - biblical patriarch Enoch who was taken alive to Heaven. But they were
created by different authors and "rediscovered" in totally different circumstances.
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1 Enoch: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Actually a compilation of different authors. Known to Church Fathers but later forgotten, apparently none of European copies survived.
Never forgotten in Ethiopia.
Confirmed ownership by Europeans is 18th century and translation from Geez is the 19th century:
Better success was achieved by the famous Scottish traveller James Bruce, who, in 1773, returned to Europe from six years in Abyssinia with three copies of a Geʽez version
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2 Enoch or Slavonic Enoch: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Not related to Ethiopia. Survived in Europe in Bulgaria in Old Slavonic language. Never really forgotten there but "rediscovered" by western academics in the 19th century who only then realised its importance.
So 1 Enoch was brought to Europe in the 18th century and 2 Enoch has always been in Europe.
Now you can of course create some fancy theories that someone didn't have to travel to Ethiopia but had a 1500 years old private copy of 1 Enoch in Greek which somehow survived
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Rafal - 22-02-2026
But all this history doesn't really matter.
This solution is called by the author as "translation" but it is not really a translation. I haven't seen a single sentence translated there from Latin, Greek, Geez, Old Slavonic or whatever.
It is instead an interpretation of Voynich imagery in the spirit of both Books of Enoch.
And it is really a problematic interpretation:
Sorry but you won't convince me that archangel Michael who is an archetypal warrior could be represented as a nude, pregnant woman
And the other staff is similar - green and yellow leaves are interpreted as saints and sinners. Some roots are interpretted as Biblical monster Behemoth and so on.
All of these are very long shots which all could be interpreted symbolically in a thousand another possible ways.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - nablator - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 01:23 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Question for you. What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe? Wikipedia says 1773, which as interesting as your theory is, makes it less tenable. Do you have sources showing an earlier source or are you suggesting that the whole manuscript was created in Ethiopia? In which case, there's rather a lot of Caucasian nymphs...
There was a (now lost) Latin translation, only a fragment (24 lines) is preserved in an 8th century manuscript, long enough to make sure that:
Quote:This translation from the Ethiopic version shows that the fragment before us can only be regarded as a shortened text. But there seems no reason to doubt that it is an extract from a complete Latin version of the Book of Enoch.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - DG97EEB - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 03:41 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:23 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Question for you. What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe? Wikipedia says 1773, which as interesting as your theory is, makes it less tenable. Do you have sources showing an earlier source or are you suggesting that the whole manuscript was created in Ethiopia? In which case, there's rather a lot of Caucasian nymphs...
There was a (now lost) Latin translation, only a fragment (24 lines) is preserved in an 8th century manuscript, long enough to make sure that:
Quote:This translation from the Ethiopic version shows that the fragment before us can only be regarded as a shortened text. But there seems no reason to doubt that it is an extract from a complete Latin version of the Book of Enoch.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Indeed I'm aware of that, but that doesn't validate the OP's theory
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 03:59 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 03:41 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:23 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Question for you. What's the earliest known transmission date of 1&2 Enoch to Europe? Wikipedia says 1773, which as interesting as your theory is, makes it less tenable. Do you have sources showing an earlier source or are you suggesting that the whole manuscript was created in Ethiopia? In which case, there's rather a lot of Caucasian nymphs...
There was a (now lost) Latin translation, only a fragment (24 lines) is preserved in an 8th century manuscript, long enough to make sure that:
Quote:This translation from the Ethiopic version shows that the fragment before us can only be regarded as a shortened text. But there seems no reason to doubt that it is an extract from a complete Latin version of the Book of Enoch.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Indeed I'm aware of that, but that doesn't validate the OP's theory
Today I consulted with an expert on Jewish texts and the Torah, and he said that texts about Enoch were present in the Torah and Jewish texts even in the 15th century.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Rafal - 22-02-2026
Quote:Today I consulted with an expert on Jewish texts and the Torah, and he said that texts about Enoch were present in the Torah and Jewish texts even in the 15th century.
I would say more, Enoch is present in the Torah even today
Well, Torah is the first 5 books of Old Testament. They have been unchanged for about 2500 years. Enoch was in the Torah before Christ, was there in the 15th century and still is there.
And he also appears in different rabbinic and Christian commentary.
There is some interpretation of the Book of Revelation involving Enoch and Elijah. They often go together as they are only people before Christ taken alive to Heaven in the Bible. In this interpretation they are guardians of Heaven who will one day return to the Earth to fight Antichrist:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But how does this relates to Voynich Manuscript?
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 03:11 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But all this history doesn't really matter.
This solution is called by the author as "translation" but it is not really a translation. I haven't seen a single sentence translated there from Latin, Greek, Geez, Old Slavonic or whatever.
It is instead an interpretation of Voynich imagery in the spirit of both Books of Enoch.
And it is really a problematic interpretation:
Sorry but you won't convince me that archangel Michael who is an archetypal warrior could be represented as a nude, pregnant woman
And the other staff is similar - green and yellow leaves are interpreted as saints and sinners. Some roots are interpretted as Biblical monster Behemoth and so on.
All of these are very long shots which all could be interpreted symbolically in a thousand another possible ways.
I was also surprised, but when the chapters of the parables with the images agree with the sequence of paragraphs of the text of the book of Enoch, when the pictures of the nymphs agree with the paragraphs and follow the same sequence, and when the structure of the book of Enoch corresponds to the VMS and the number of words in both books is similar and the astrological part describing the lunar calendar is obvious, then it is no longer just random but systematic. I have much, much more but I have to insert it gradually. The chapter of the animal apocalypse with the image of the elephant as a leaf also got me to my knees. Voynich is definitely ENOCH. It will just take me a while to put it all here
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 22-02-2026
(Yesterday, 06:13 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:Today I consulted with an expert on Jewish texts and the Torah, and he said that texts about Enoch were present in the Torah and Jewish texts even in the 15th century.
I would say more, Enoch is present in the Torah even today
Well, Torah is the first 5 books of Old Testament. They have been unchanged for about 2500 years. Enoch was in the Torah before Christ, was there in the 15th century and still is there.
And he also appears in different rabbinic and Christian commentary.
There is some interpretation of the Book of Revelation involving Enoch and Elijah. They often go together as they are only people before Christ taken alive to Heaven in the Bible. In this interpretation they are guardians of Heaven who will one day return to the Earth to fight Antichrist:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
But how does this relates to Voynich Manuscript?
This was the answer to the question from the previous post, whether the author of VMS could have had access to the texts about Enoch.