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+--- Thread: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v (/thread-5246.html)
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - Aga Tentakulus - 18-01-2026
(Yesterday, 01:56 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it's kurz, preceded by aller, wouldn't we expect a superlative? Like "the shortest of all"
‘Malier’ would be responsible for that.
‘The most beautiful of all, shortly after I saw her’
Für das wäre dann "malier" zustänig.
"schönste aller, kurz her als ich sie sah"
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - JoJo_Jost - 18-01-2026
And when you look at the picture on 17r, you know what the writer means by perfect feet... (roots)
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - Koen G - 18-01-2026
(Yesterday, 02:28 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 01:56 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it's kurz, preceded by aller, wouldn't we expect a superlative? Like "the shortest of all"
‘Malier’ would be responsible for that.
‘The most beautiful of all, shortly after I saw her’
I see what you mean, but I'm not sure if the grammar makes sense. Aller is a genitive meaning "of all", right? So we would expect that with a superlative (biggest), not a comparative (bigger). Yet "malier", if it is a form of an adjective, would be a comparative, right? So it's like saying "the smarter of all students". Which sounds wrong, unless I'm underestimating the flexibility of MHG.
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - JoJo_Jost - 18-01-2026
Well, I definitely know the variant kuaz. But kuez? That sounds like North German slang to me, but then the e would be more like an ä. Kuäz...
But German dialects
, I grew up in a village and could understand the dialect, but in the next village (14 km away), I had considerable difficulty understanding anything when the older people spoke in pure dialect.I just read the other thread again, Aga, you yourself had fuez = feet... sorry, I didn't mean to steal that from you!
and the letter f existin in this writing:
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - Aga Tentakulus - 18-01-2026
It makes sense if there is a comma after ‘aller’ and if it refers to flowers.
‘Most beautiful of all (flowers),’ = Most beautiful of all, in short, ‘you’.
The sentence continues.
‘Un-’ is a prefix of a negative form. Happiness/unhappiness, but also fall/accident.
I don't really have any idea yet how everything should fit together.
Es macht dann Sinn wenn nach aller ein Komma kommt und wenn es sich auf die Blume bezieht.
"Schönste aller (Blumen), " = Schönste aller, kurz ihr".
Der Satz geht ja weiter.
"un-" Vorsilbe einer Negativform. Glück/unglück, aber auch Fall/Unfall.
Ich habe noch keine echte Idee wie alles in Einklang kommen sollte.
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - ReneZ - 18-01-2026
(Yesterday, 11:44 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.while the Voynich word looks like "kuc3"
Since you looked at other examples much more than I have: is the reading of 'u' for the second character relatively safe? To me, it could as well be an 'r' (or a 'v'). 'r' would not be expected after 'l' but should be unproblematic after 'k'.
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - Bernd - 19-01-2026
I think R is a bit of a stretch as we have 3 highly similar Rs in the text but V definitely seems possible. 'kv'c3'
I also don't think trying to shoehorn these letter conglomerates (I wouldn't even say words as the boundaries are unclear) into either Latin or German is particularly helpful. It really reminds me of all the 'Voynich theory' guessing games. Finding more -c3 abbreviations would be interesting though.
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - JoJo_Jost - 19-01-2026
There is another word, kuc3= kucz = kuczen = Käutzchen (= the owl, the little owl) – but I have no idea how should it fit in there...
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RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - MarcoP - 19-01-2026
(Yesterday, 10:44 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Yesterday, 11:44 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.while the Voynich word looks like "kuc3"
Since you looked at other examples much more than I have: is the reading of 'u' for the second character relatively safe? To me, it could as well be an 'r' (or a 'v'). 'r' would not be expected after 'l' but should be unproblematic after 'k'.
Hi Rene, that’s just my personal preferred reading and I wouldn’t be surprised if I were entirely wrong. The options you mention seem well possible to me.
These are some of the shapes for r (54-66) and v (77-81) from Derolez “The Palaeography of Gothic Manuscript Books” (“Cursiva” chapter). About “round u and angular v” he writes that “either form could be used for both the vowel and the consonant”.
RE: On the word "luez" in the marginalia of folio f17v - Bernd - 19-01-2026
Are there examples where letter shapes change that drastically between adjacent words? If we accept that the first, second and 4th word of f17r ends in R, I find it argue that the U-shape in 3rd should also be the same. Unless we argue that word-final letters differ from mid-word ones. Then again - it's the VM marginalia we are talking about where letter shapes are notoriously weird. So I guess a lot is possible...