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+--- Thread: The reproduction of roots as healing objects (/thread-5075.html)
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 13-12-2025
A few days ago, I noticed a post in the forum that surprisingly matched my own observations—and that's when it got really interesting for me. The post (based on a paper by Andreas Timm, later developed further together with Schinner) looks at the Voynich vocabulary as a network. What it shows is not a series of clearly separate words, but a dense network of forms that often differ only minimally, but connect almost the entire lexicon.
At first, this confused me a little, but then I realized that it actually confirms what I myself have been observing for some time (in a much simpler form).
As I have written here several times, I assume that the text was copied from an older source that was already difficult to read. In some places, it seems quite clear to me that the writer wrote down several possible readings of the same basic form one after the other – apparently because certain glyphs were not easy to distinguish. Even if this is only partially true, it would help explain why Voynichese contains so many almost identical word forms and why variants are often very close to each other. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This approach was not unusual in the Middle Ages, although alternatives were usually separated by a special character or by "vel". This is missing here – or the character is simply no longer visible.
As I mentioned, my own tests suggest that the text functions less and less like a coherent recipe or prose text. To me, it looks more like a tabular or parametric description that works with a small number of fixed templates that are slightly varied over and over again. Such a system would naturally require far fewer different words and verbs – which is exactly what we observe in the Voynich manuscript. One possible application could be a series of similar but not identical descriptions of the plant's vascular system.
When I combine these two ideas, the results of the network become at least partially understandable to me: a highly structured source on the one hand, combined with uncertainties in the interpretation of the glyphs on the other. The result would be a text full of closely related forms and local clusters – without having to assume a classic continuous text, an encryption that massively inflates the wording, or an intentional hoax.
But maybe I'm wrong about that... ist difficult...
@Bluetoes Your example could fit this idea. The process might have gone something like this: He writes the word on the left, then thinks, “Hmm, no, a y makes more sense,” changes it, becomes uncertain again, and writes it again as a second word.
But of course, that's just a diedeledely theory.
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 13-12-2025
I created a purely fictional sample text to explore what such a system might look like in practice. The idea was to model a text in which meaning is highly constrained, leading to a strong reduction of vocabulary and the natural emergence of repetition.
If functional roles are assigned to the recurring terms, the structure begins to resemble what the statistics suggest, especially once repetitions introduced by a copyist are taken into account.
flower opens wide toward the sky.
receives a cooling power from the heaven.
Flower power is light and active.
Flower healing is cooling and opening.
stem directs the heavenly power
downward in orderly channels.
Stem power of Aries,
energy is balancing and supportive.
forces flow and gather strength.
Steam channels are dense and closed.
force becomes heavier more concentrated.
effect is binding and strengthening.
The root gathers the power of healing.
energy firm and calm.
effect is preserving and restorative.
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 13-12-2025
Ah, I need to add something else, otherwise it won't make sense:
What would a “functional unit” with states be?
Example (fictitious):
Energy state (E), which can change, even within a paragraph/page.
E + light -> ener-li
E + heavy -> ener-he
E + calm -> ener-ca
E + firm -> ener-fi
penultimate sentence:
enerfi enerca
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 02-01-2026
I discovered another similarity. I noticed these little ‘yellow’ star-shaped symbols in the circles that look like starfish. And then it suddenly clicked. I knew where I recognised the shape from – some pistils look like this from above:
If the others are supposed to be cross-sections of plant cuttings, and I find the similarity really convincing, then these could be top views of flowers. Here is an example to clarify what I mean. It's not exactly the same flower, but it's a good fit. Another of the neighbouring circles is probably a tulip-like flower, but I'm still looking for a suitable image for it.
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And here with 9 stripes (in the VMS there are 8)
Unfortunately, as it's an alamy photo, only the link is available:
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RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 02-01-2026
It's like comparing it to a tulip. You can see that the pattern of the tulip (black) is similarly formed and ‘jagged’ to that of the VMS. The small yellow flames (blue dotted line) look like the small stamps, which are unfortunately black on black here, but are also similarly wavy in shape. The yellow rays (green line) are the leaves. Here we have 8 rays in the VMS 6 flower.
Whether someone compares the stamp to the sun is open to debate. Nevertheless, the similarity is at least striking in context.
Perhaps we will soon be able to read the writing. Then it will become clear whether I am incredibly wrong here, or even right
.RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 02-01-2026
To put it very clearly: why shouldn't these images be depict parts of plants, when the vast majority of pages in the VMS are about plants?
I couldn't find a really good flower comparison for the last of the three drawings. The two pictures above are gentian. But perhaps this makes it easier to imagine how the drawing might be intended. The many small dots can be seen in the calyx of the gentian; there are variants where the dots are smaller and more widely distributed. From above, these strange curves around these structures in the VMS could be these slightly yellowish ends. But of course, the pistil does not match, so I admit that this is not a really good match.
The blue dots could also be many small flower stems, as seen in the third picture. I have a picture of a plant called ‘Purple Poppy’ – although this is obviously not the flower in question, it shows how it could be interpreted.
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RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 03-01-2026
Conclusing:
Strictly speaking, the question ‘gentian, poppy or tulip?’ is not really relevant. These comparisons are actually only intended to describe individual components – star, wreath, tube.
However, when an author depicts this on a fold-out page, it is more about a kind of seriality. Three such flower centres on consecutive pages are probably intended to describe the basic structures rather than a specific type of flower.
It is about the power/(healing) energy of the generative centre of this plant, i.e. something that can be explained schematically but not perfectly depicted. And so the text around it also makes sense.
It is maybe nothing more than a schematic textbook representation and interpretation.
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - Jorge_Stolfi - 03-01-2026
(02-01-2026, 11:51 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.why shouldn't these images be depict parts of plants, when the vast majority of pages in the VMS are about plants?
Well, that page in particular is in a quire where most pages have drawings of stars, sun, moon, etc.
On the other hand, true, in the last four pages of that quire (that include f70r1) there are no stars; there is just a face on f70r2 that could be a flower nymph rather than the sun or moon.
But, on the third hand, those four pages have no clearly floral details, either...
You cannot assume that the colors are original. Without them, f70r1 looks a lot less like a flower.
In fact, I believe that the round thing that got painted blue was supposed to be convex, like a sphere, not concave, like a bowl; and each of the nine "petals" was meant to be an opening into that sphere, like a short and wide trumpet with frilled rim.
Besides, it seems weird to assign a label to each petal of a flower. Or to each gap between two petals...
All the best, --stolfi
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 03-01-2026
(03-01-2026, 12:53 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Besides, it seems weird to assign a label to each petal of a flower. Or to each gap between two petals...
Well, actually, it's not even certain that they are really stars
; some of them are too symmetrical. It's just the most obvious assumption (which I also share, especially because you can see Orion's Belt).Perhaps, as was customary at the time, he assigned the small, i.e. the plants, to the large, i.e. the cosmos. That would not be unusual for the time.
But since the plant cuts fit so amazingly well, it may well be that he has brought something together here. Page 68v could show this transition between plant cuts and astrology. The patterns inside these circles can also be seen in plant structures.
But we are all just blind people poking around in the mud with a stick, trying to recognise what is there.
RE: The reproduction of roots as healing objects - JoJo_Jost - 03-01-2026
I have noticed that many people see the image in the middle of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. very differently. Perhaps this is because they really do see it very differently from others.
To clarify how I see this image in the context of a plant cutting, I launched Gemini (ChatGPT failed completely) and tried to capture everything in the image. Believe me, it's much harder than you think, but it was fun. I know that some things are proportioned differently (e.g. the outer ring is too wide, and an inner circle is missing) – but those were things I simply couldn't teach the AI.
I added perspective to make it even clearer and thus compensate for the perspective problems of the original. The result is this:
Und der Vergleich: