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+--- Thread: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout (/thread-4661.html)
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
(28-04-2025, 10:51 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you going to put Beneventan in every sentence describing generic medieval Latin? The abbreviations are generic too, not Beneventan.Please be more specific.
Which one of the provided examples of Beneventan script is generic medieval Latin?
Also, please support you statement with evidence.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - ReneZ - 29-04-2025
More than 30 years ago now, the linguist Jacques Guy, then a very active member of online Voynich discussions and analysis, noted the similarity of the Voynich character Ch with the Beneventan letter 't'.
This is almost certainly coincidental. The medievalist Sergio Toressella emphatically denied any resemblance of the Voynich MS writing with the Beneventan script.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
The bench has to be a ligature.
The ligatures of the gallows have to be nested between the two symbols of the bench ligature.
Another less plausible option is that the gallows ligatures are suprascript to be pronounced after the bench but there are examples of gallows written after the bench for this case.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
I tend to interpret the two flavors of '8' also as two distinct ligatures.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
The same applies also to the two flavors of 'a' and the two flavors of '9', they also have to be distinct ligatures. In my opinion, Timothy Rayhel (a.k.a. Glen Claston) was right to provide different v101 symbols for said flavors.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
Thinking of many cipher symbols in terms of ligatures and abbreviations would allow to increase the vord length and rethink what language (if any) is encoded using the Beneventan approach.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
What if the cipher manuscript is not a cipher but rather an implementation of a medieval word compression?
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
(28-04-2025, 04:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....That in turn would imply that you now discovered readings for several glyphs. Then you'll end up on Tavi's list and we have to explain why the theory doesn't work...In fact, I already demonstrated with some certainty that the three red embellishments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are Beneventan glyphs: the sideways 'm' and/or 'V' / 'U' on the left-hand side; and (with less certainty) 'G' and 'C' on the right-hand side.
I would describe the current state of investigation as a solution in progress.
Tavie has my permission to include a link to this thread in the list of solutions with a tentative description like "Beneventan connection to medieval ligature/abbreviation -based word compression" or something along these lines.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - ReneZ - 29-04-2025
(Yesterday, 11:09 AM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I already demonstrated with some certainty that the three red embellishments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are Beneventan glyphs
You found examples of similar glyphs. That is not an identification.
Note that Beneventan is not more than a particular style of writing that was in use in some limited areas in Europe in a limited period of time.
This time predates the writing of the Voynich MS by a large margin.
It is a name for a script. It is not a potential provenance.
RE: Origin of the Shield Shape in the Solar Folio of the f85-86 Foldout - Dobri - 29-04-2025
(Yesterday, 11:47 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The sideways (flying) letter 'm' (resembling the Arabic numeral 3) is unmistakably Beneventan.(Yesterday, 11:09 AM)Dobri Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I already demonstrated with some certainty that the three red embellishments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are Beneventan glyphs
You found examples of similar glyphs. That is not an identification.
Note that Beneventan is not more than a particular style of writing that was in use in some limited areas in Europe in a limited period of time.
This time predates the writing of the Voynich MS by a large margin.
It is a name for a script. It is not a potential provenance.
The Beneventan script was still used in some locations during the 15th century (perhaps also in Dalmatia) and was available to the unknown scribes (most probably in the libraries of Benedictine monasteries) when designing their cipher.