+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Astrology & Astronomy (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-34.html)
+--- Thread: Matching planet labels (/thread-4089.html)
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
BTW, I'm not familiar with various historical cults and religions, was Hermes Trismegistus associated with Mercury the planet?
(17-10-2023, 07:59 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No idea what they are looking for. But here is an example from Africa/Arab world/Mali/ Universität Timbuktu. around 1449.
We are looking for planetary charts. Any charts showing 12 Zodiac signs and 7 planets.
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
Fascinating set of charts from Liber cronicarum cum figuris, 1497, showing the evolution of celestial spheres in the first days of creation. Not really relevant for f67r2.
Full resolution: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Matching planet labels - bi3mw - 17-10-2023
(17-10-2023, 08:08 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.BTW, I'm not familiar with various historical cults and religions, was Hermes Trismegistus associated with Mercury the planet?Found on Reddit:
Quote:You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
"Hermes Trismegistus is Hermes as most people think of him though. In the Classical Hermetica, in I think the Aesclepius or Poimandres, Hermes Trismegistus says that a certain ritual should be done when he is in a certain astrological position, ie when the astral Hermes, aka the Planet Mercury, is in a certain position."
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
Interestingly, two editions of Compilatio Leupoldi ducatus Austrie filij de astrorum scientia, from 1489 and from 1520 show different charts, unremarkable all planets as a column and domicile based 3 + 4. So, it looks like somewhere at the end of the XV century there was a switch in how these charts are designed, in different places in Europe.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Full res: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Matching planet labels - MarcoP - 17-10-2023
(17-10-2023, 04:10 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(16-10-2023, 10:49 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The 1502 edition listing references the Leipzig printers Landsberg and Kachelofen.
Opusculu[m] Iohannis de Sacrobusto spericu[m] cu[m] figuris optimis et nouis textu[m] in se sine ambiguitate declarantibus : Sacro Bosco, Joannes de, active 1230 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Same cosmic pattern, slightly different printed text. Also has labels.
There is a lot of handwriting in this example, I wonder what it says.
I find the annotations hard to read, and the page was trimmed so that some letters are missing.
In this detail, the main text says:
"Unde inter illas speras, spera Saturni est maxima, spera vero Lune minima pro ut in sequenti figura continetur" (meaning: "Therefore, among these spheres, that of Saturn is the largest and that of the Moon the smallest, as the following figure shows")
The two handwritten lines between the last two printed lines read:
"[?] proprium motum suum breviorem quem currit breviorem ambitum quam alia astr[a].
Quem cursum perficit sol intra menses duodecim luna uno mense currit"
I cannot identify the initial short word and I could have misread something, but the meaning is clear:
"[the planet that] performs its cycle in the shortest time is the one that has the smallest orbit among the planets. The cycle that the sun runs in twelve months, the moon runs it in a single month".
The annotations at the right of the diagram discuss the diameter of the orbits of the planets. There is a reference to Al-Farghani (here "Alphrayan") and his work "Liber de aggregationibus scientiae stellarum".
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
I've also found some charts in a 1451 MS, I can't understand the logic of the upper right chart, it lists the planets and the signs as if randomly ordered?
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Full res: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Matching planet labels - Helmut Winkler - 17-10-2023
I cannot identify the initial short word
It is IN in capitals, three strokes/'minims', cp. the intra in the second line in lower case lettters
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
There is a very strange arrangement in the following MS of XIII-XIV, within the text of a copy of Cleomedes "On the Circular Motions of the Celestial Bodies". The chart itself looks strange, planet assignments to signs are the usual ones for the Sun and the Moon, then one of the domiciles is changed for Mercury, Mars and Saturn, and then both are changed for Venus and Jupiter. I'm not sure where this comes from.
Full res: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note how Zodiac goes ccw on the big chart, but cw on the small chart. If we take these assignments, then the following planets sequences are possible for f67r2:
Jupiter-Moon-Sun-Mercury-0-Mars-0-Venus-0-Saturn-0-0
Jupiter-Moon-Sun-Mercury-0-0-Mars-0-Saturn-0-Venus-0
RE: Matching planet labels - oshfdk - 17-10-2023
This article on Thema Mundi, astrological configuration at the beginning of the Universe according to Hellenistic Astrology, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. gives the usual domiciles for planets.
So, it's unlikely that the chart in my previous post shows the standard Greek assignments.
RE: Matching planet labels - nablator - 17-10-2023
A domus planetarum from a manuscript written around 1399-1406: Basel, Universitätsbibliothek F III 8.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Mars - Aries* & Scorpio
Venus - Taurus & Libra*
Mercury - Gemini & Virgo*
Moon - Cancer
Sun - Leo
Jupiter - Sagittarius* & Pisces
Saturn - Capricorn & Aquarius*
* = in Opus Sphericum (De Sphaere Mundi) by Jonannes of Sacrobosco (~1500) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(1502)
The table above matches the list of astrological houses with one associated planet and one zodiac sign per house (same as the table in Naibod 1560):
First house: Aries and Mars
Second house: Taurus and Venus
Third house: Gemini and Mercury
Fourth house: Cancer and the Moon
Fifth house: Leo and the Sun
Sixth house: Virgo and Mercury
Seventh house: Libra and Venus
Eighth house: Scorpio and Mars
Ninth house: Sagittarius and Jupiter
Tenth house: Capricorn and Saturn
Eleventh house: Aquarius and Saturn
Twelfth house: Pisces and Jupiter
When the diagram follows these rules for each planet, it is astrological, not astronomical, so the date doesn't matter I suppose.